Season 1 Best Moments (2024)
Hard to believe we've already done 15 Endurance Matters episodes. It's been such a fun project to be able to talk to these guests. Amazing conversations, and amazing athletes across the board. But before we dive into our season 2 2025 episodes, let's have a bit of a look back at some of the best moments from season 1 in 2024. First up, we had young Ironman stud, Trevor Foley.
Speaker 1:He manifested so much in this episode. We talked about what his goals and dreams were for the 2024 season, and he was actually able to go out and execute upon those goals. And it was really impressive to watch, him in this episode, but then also be able to transfer that thought process and those abilities onto the race course. You know, so I've asked you about the 6 month goal. What's the 6 year goal when you're my age?
Speaker 1:So I'm 30. I'm turning 31 in, just a cup yeah. A couple weeks now. 30 hit me pretty hard. It'll hit you hard when you get there.
Speaker 2:I'm sure.
Speaker 1:What's the goal? What where do you wanna be when you're 30 years old when you're my age?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think I have this, like, massive plan in my head of what I wanna do. I want I wanna build, like, a massive brand and a massive team. So, like, an age group team. Wanna build a massive age group team and I wanna build, like, a massive, or a big, like, semi pro pro team as well.
Speaker 3:I wanna coach pros as well. I wanna coach guys, yeah, trying to win Ironman races. And then, eventually, I wanna, you know, take all that revenue and all that money and build, like, a training compound, kinda. Like, I wanna have, like, a track, and I wanna have, like, pool, and I wanna have, like, this whole centralized place where, like, all my people can train. And then, like, be with the same sponsors forever and have, like, those sponsors sponsor that.
Speaker 3:Like, that's kinda what I wanna build. I wanna build this big community and team and yeah. It's because I love coaching. Like, I've been like I said, I've been coaching myself for years, so I love it. And then from an individual standpoint, like my own career, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think I can be one of the best top five, top ten guys in the world. Can I do that? I don't know. I think I can. So I've, like, you know, 22 is my 1st year as a pro.
Speaker 3:I was 40th in the world. Last year was 2nd year, and I was 30th. So maybe I can be 20th in the world this year. It's kind of moving up. Obviously, it gets harder harder the higher you move up.
Speaker 3:But just being remotely, like, in the conversation to be one of the best guys in the world, and then, I
Speaker 4:don't know, if I get
Speaker 3:a lucky year and it all comes together, be one of the best to be on the podium. So I think that's kinda a 6 year goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think the biggest thing is just being super consistent. Yeah. Like, I think you just gotta keep yeah. I said it before.
Speaker 1:You just gotta keep showing up year after year, and I think you're starting from such a solid place
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That if you just get, like, 1% better and you can avoid injuries and stuff, you're gonna be you're gonna be a star. Like, that's just what that's the track.
Speaker 3:Baseline was was thankfully, was so so much higher than a lot of other people. So, like and that's the other thing too. Like, I know what I was doing 2 years ago, and I just gotta get a little better, like you said, every year. And, you know, like you said, stay healthy. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think I can get pretty close to where I wanna be.
Speaker 1:Next, we shifted gears to Alexei Vermulen. He's a professional cyclist racing the off road series, and it was a really insightful conversation for me to get an inside look into sports marketing and what it takes to be a professional cyclist in 2024. From the outside looking in, I don't know a ton about the gravel in the off road world, but it does seem to me just like paying attention to your social media and the gravel scene from afar but it's very similar to long course triathlon where you need to create your own brand. Like you said, you're on the hook for everything. You're your own travel agent, business manager, agent in most cases.
Speaker 1:So, like, was that a challenge to get like, coming from the world tour where everything's kind of, like, here it is, was that a challenge, or did you feel pretty natural, like, in that role straight away?
Speaker 5:It it was pretty natural. I'm a very outgoing person, and I knew that that's what I wanted to do when I left the road. Right? Like, I I think I it's it's nice to have this I'm young. It's there's not much left to go back.
Speaker 5:I have, like, a savings account, and I was like, okay. I'm gonna fully dive into this. And so I was very confident that I was worth something and I just had to prove it. I think the biggest learning experience for me was truthfully learning how to actually be valuable to a company. And I think I can talk about this for for hours and hours and hours, but it took a a call with a woman at Carhartt.
Speaker 5:Pretty much I got on and started pitching, and, you know, 10 minutes later, she was like, oh, this is this is pretty this is horrible.
Speaker 1:She said
Speaker 5:that to you.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 7:That's crazy.
Speaker 5:It was just she went over and, like, started explaining things and why this, why that, and how to look at this. And pretty much her point was if you go into any call anytime with a sponsor you've never talked to and have an assumption of what they need, you're gonna fail. And that's really, really hard to think when you're an athlete. So, like, oh, why does it matter? They can just give me 5 grand.
Speaker 5:Mhmm. They don't they're a $1,000,000 company. Who cares? But that's not how it works. And the best example I can give of this is so I was like, during the pandemic, I had a lot of friends who I was still living in Michigan, a lot of friends in Michigan, and I was getting connections to these big companies.
Speaker 5:Like, I talked to the c the vice president of marketing at Ford. I talked to Carhartt. I talked to, like, some big Michigan companies. And I was talking to Ford and, got to the point with the the guy who's just like, I could give you a $100 on a budget right now, and I wouldn't know it went away. The problem is it would cost me double that to train and hire someone to quantify if you're actually bringing value in for us and then to be able to find space in our social calendar to promote what you are, which is a small niche.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Because, like, nothing doesn't exist. It's that if we come in, we have to come in with 1,000,000 of dollars and not $100,000 because in the market, that does nothing for us. We have to come in, own cycling, come out.
Speaker 8:Yeah. And
Speaker 5:I think that was a big realization for me of, like, it is relationship based Yep. But it's also you have to live in reality. You can't live in delusion and think that, like, people just throw money at you because you do this entertainment thing. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And
Speaker 5:so, yeah, I think it was difficult at first, but I had these really good learning experiences that weren't demoralizing. They may have been demoralizing in the minute. Yeah. But as I've learned, like, I would like, that that kid who felt stupid for not going to college, I would now go up against any of my friends who went to business or marketing school, and I would argue whatever time limit you give us, I could sell more. Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's I mean, it's awesome to hear you talk about that experience because I I had a very similar, couple of experiences myself. I remember one with Discover card. I was, like, on the phone with an executive at Discover card and, like, trying to pitch my case for why triathlon wasn't an important thing for them to pay attention to, and she was just like, I do not understand this at all. I don't think she said it the same way of, like, I could give you a $100.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't I wouldn't feel it, but, I think that was kind of the sentiment that I I got.
Speaker 5:And it's and it's crazy in that moment because you think you know everything. Right? You've built this pitch out. You've done the work. You think you've researched everything.
Speaker 5:You're, like, oh, they focused on this, and this is why it's important, but you really you quickly realize when they start talking about things of, like, oh, there's a reason Red Bull's not a energy drink brand. Right? It's a media brand. There's a reason Carhartt doesn't view themselves as a clothing brand. It's it's really hard to know before you have that conversation.
Speaker 5:I think that was a big learning sense for experience for me of, like, okay. Get on the phone, have a conversation, and then try to make a proposal. Yeah. And try to have a, you know, a real conversation. And from there, you'll make a relationship that will lead to something or will just lead to friends.
Speaker 5:Yep.
Speaker 1:For sure. I feel like also, you know, I talk a lot about the because I've had a couple in the I have a lot of endemic partners and then a lot of non I've had some non endemic partnerships, and I'm sure you can attest to the fact that, like, getting the ones outside of the sport are probably are definitely a lot more difficult. That's where the big dollars are gonna likely come from. But if you talk to a wheel company or a bike company or a nutrition company, chances are someone's in that brand who at least gets it or can be a fan of you or can, you know, live vicariously through you. It's a lot more difficult with the, yeah, with the non endemic brands, the ones who are outside of the sports.
Speaker 1:So I'll have to pick your brain a little bit more to
Speaker 4:see what
Speaker 1:you do with those.
Speaker 5:I mean, I think it's interesting also to not to, like, just to tie this all together. Like, you watch Unchained come out, right, on Netflix right now, and it's for me as a writer, like, when it first started it was first to watch it with my girlfriend, I was like, I hate this. It's so dramatic. It's so like, I can't deal with this. And then slowly, I realized, like, okay.
Speaker 5:Maybe this is bringing fans or information education into the sport, and that's what I can hope for. Right? That it makes it easier for us to have those conversations about non endemic stuff.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 5:Because it's those are the companies that if you spend a year working on trying to explain what it is, the person's probably moved jobs already. A 100%. That's where it gets really difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I agree. I mean, obviously, with gravel racing and triathlon, there's this whole additional element of having to build your brand and maintain your brand, continuously fight for what you feel like you're worth and, you know, what the worth of your sport is as a whole because, you know, I feel like you and maybe myself are are examples in terms of, you know, kind of maybe where the bar should be set. And I always have felt like it's important for us to advocate not only for yourself, but, you know, the more you advocate for yourself and the more dollars you can get for yourself, that kinda sets an industry standard. So if you're sitting there taking a lower value across the board, someone who's equal or lesser a lower profile rider, they're not even gonna be able to make ends meet.
Speaker 1:You know? For sure.
Speaker 5:And I think the the biggest thing when you start talking about that stuff, I think, is if I can convince young writers that getting results is just the validation that you're working with that company Yeah. That's not a return on investment Yep. At all. Totally. And the minute you can realize that of, like, hey.
Speaker 5:That's that's me validating why I'm here. Yeah. Now I have to return the investment. I have to go sell bikes or I have to explain or bring new customers in.
Speaker 6:Yep.
Speaker 5:That's where the real understanding happens, and that is un unquantifiable to a point.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 6:But we
Speaker 5:all know it. It's a feeling. It's a gut feeling of, like, I'm doing a positive thing for this company, and we're moving forward. Yeah. Or it's, you know, it's not working for this for this reason or the other, and we gotta work on something.
Speaker 5:Yep.
Speaker 1:Unexpected guest in the studio for episode 3 was Dean Karnazes, who's an absolute legend in the ultra running community. In this episode, it was an absolute delight to be able to peel back the curtain and understand what makes his mind tick on these ultra endurance events. I wanna transition a little bit into the mental side of all of these endurance challenges because I think all endurance athletes, whether you're running a 5 k and just getting into it or doing a 70.3 or a regular marathon or even getting into an ultra marathon, like, during a 100 mile ultra race or something even larger, 200 miles, 350 miles, how are you either truncating that and segmenting it, or how are you just staying present in each mile? How does that process work for you?
Speaker 9:I think that's the key is staying present. You know, people say to me a lot, you know, what do you think about when it gets tough? And I think thinking is the problem. I think that just do. So, when I hit the wall, you know, the quote, unquote wall, I mean, what I really try to do is not to think about anything.
Speaker 9:Put on the blinders to the next aid station or, you know, the next mile mark or whatever. Don't reflect on the past. Just think about one thing, taking my next footstep to the best of my ability. Sure. And then my next footstep to the best of my ability.
Speaker 9:And it takes some discipline. Right? Our our minds are so active. I mean, even now as we're talking, we have a 1 on 1 conversation. You're thinking about what's the next question?
Speaker 9:What's your did I turn off the the light at home? Whatever. So to really focus on your next footstep, you you have to be present, and you have to pull your mind into that place. And I can do that for 8 or 9 hours sometimes, especially in these longer runs where I'm just thinking about one thing, next footstep, next footstep. I'm not thinking how much further I've gotta go.
Speaker 9:You know, in an Ironman, you know you know it's ahead of you. Right? There's there's no mystery in this. But when you're suffering, you know, you're just looking for an out. Like, you know, where where's the next aid station?
Speaker 9:Where where's you know, when's the next hash mark gonna come? Whatever. If you can just tune out of that, your body is really amazing. And the human body is capable of so much more than I think we understand, but we have these self conceived limitations we place on ourself. And if we could just move out of the way of that, we can keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. Is there are you trying to skew I mean, you said you you're not really thinking about anything. You're just trying to stay focused. Is there anything that you find yourself gravitating towards if you do to combat maybe, like, a negative emotion?
Speaker 1:If you start if you're you're at mile 30 of a 100 mile ultra race and you think, there's no way I'm getting through 70 miles. Is there, like, a combative force? Are you just trying to get back to neutral, like, a combative positive force?
Speaker 9:You know, I have to say, I think experience helps a lot because I know how bad it's been before. And so now when it gets to that place, I kinda celebrate it. I'm like, sure. This is this is fucking miserable. Have you ever been this miserable before?
Speaker 9:No. Right on. This is the most miserable you've ever been. Like, this is horrible. Like, I've never felt this horrible.
Speaker 9:Sure. And and then and there's a great thrill if you can make the reach the finish line. Like, I overcame that. So Totally. The next time this happens, you realize I I've been here before.
Speaker 9:I got through it. You can probably get through it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I was seeing something the other day that kinda, like, resonated with me and that, like, the human brain and the human body is programmed to seek comfort. And the min you know, the minute you're constantly trying to seek that comfort, you're just always going towards that.
Speaker 1:But the the celebration is in that hard moment when you kinda get your ass kicked and you are faced with a demon that you maybe haven't been faced with before, and you either, you know, take it head on or you kind of fall back into the maybe more comfortable area. So it's cool to hear that you, like, are embracing that moment, pretty intensely. Sponsor of today's episode, Precision Fuel and Hydration. These guys have been an amazing partner for the show, and it's really a product that I use every single day in my training to help me go faster, feel better. So in today's day and age, we all know high carb is sort of the thing.
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Speaker 1:Taylor Knibb, absolute superstar in endurance sports right now, one of the best female athletes on the planet. So I don't take for granted the fact that we were able to get her on the show so early on, and it was really cool to be able to share that experience with my wife, Jeannie, who co hosted the episode. In this one, we were able to really dive into some of the things that make Taylor tick, and we were able to showcase aside to her that not that many people know. I wanna talk a little bit more, and I know Jeanne's gonna be excited to get into this section, because she was helping me prepare for the podcast last night, and she was like, oh, yeah. This section's gonna be sweet.
Speaker 1:I wanna talk more about your mindset because, obviously, you're an incredible athlete. You have amazing attention to detail. You work super hard. You train hard. You've got talent.
Speaker 1:Like but I think what sets you apart is your ability to tap into a different zone mentally, and I wanna hear a little bit more about that. So as you get close to a race, how high is your motivation to win the race and just, like, decimate the field versus maybe having more process oriented goals and focusing on, like, okay. I'm gonna try and just swim in this place, bike this power, run this pace, and whatever happens happens.
Speaker 10:Well, I think a huge piece of, like, what motivates me is seeing how good I can be. And so, like, training might indicate certain things, but you just never know. And so, for example, like the time trial in Charleston, Dan gave me, like, a zone, like, a 20 watt range of, like, watts that I could hit. And I was like, that just seems really low. And he's like, well, like, you can always go higher if you want.
Speaker 10:But, like, he's like, so, like, we went to RPE and I was well above the range. Because I'm like, please don't underestimate me. But it's also like I guess so. Learning. But, like, but that's the thing.
Speaker 10:It's like tapping into what you think you're capable of and, like, answering the question, are you or aren't you? And, like because, like, training can indicate something, but you kinda have to you have to do it to do it. And so it's, like, that's why I love the racing. It's, like, to see and you know what? Sometimes I fall short.
Speaker 10:Sometimes I exceed expectations of both me and my coach, or coaches. But, like, that's that's the fun part of racing is kind of seeing where you are. And so then with that being said, like, the toughest part for me is going into a race where, like, either I know where I am, I'm not happy where I am, and, like, I don't feel like I'm as good as I wanna be or should be. And then it's kind of like, those are the tougher races because it's like, you still you still wanna get the best out of yourself on that day. That's an important process, an important skill.
Speaker 10:But when the numbers aren't as exciting, it's not as exciting. Sorry. Like, I don't wanna it just No. I Like, it's tougher. Any athlete would agree with that for sure.
Speaker 10:So Do
Speaker 1:you feel like there's an element of just what you say to yourself, like, self perpetuates a little bit. So if you're going into the race saying, oh, well, my numbers are maybe a little bit lower. I don't know what my performance is gonna be at this one, so therefore, the performance is average in your mind. But if you go in saying, oh, wow. Like, my coach is giving me these low numbers.
Speaker 1:I know I'm gonna demolish that. You go in there and demolish it just to prove a point because you've told
Speaker 2:yourself that's
Speaker 10:the truth. Yeah. I like, I the demolishing, I still don't I don't think I I I really I think I race more from a place of joy. And, like, I was reading something. I was reading a book, and it would talk about how, like, all powerful emotions are powerful, like, hence why they're powerful emotions.
Speaker 10:So, like, it's, like, that's a bit redundant, but it's, like, it's how you tap into them. And so, like, extremely negative emotions like anger, or even sadness, those have power. And so but I I don't tap into those as well as, like, joy and excitement for the sport. Like, that's kind of more where I tap into it. So, again, the demolishing, not sure about that.
Speaker 10:But also it's not I could feel like it's not proving a point. It's just kinda like expressing yourself and seeing what's hap possible, and you just never know. And I've also had so I've had times where I thought I was training amazingly, and then the races didn't go well and then vice versa. And so there's, like, there's no direct comparison, and that's where you kinda have to have a little bit of hope always. Yeah.
Speaker 10:That's dangerous though because it can lead to disappointment.
Speaker 1:But That's true. It's true. Do you feel like you have a lot of natural confidence? Like, when you're heading into a time trial US time trial national championship, which you've referenced, which is where you qualified for the Olympic time trial, do you go into that with a with hope, or is it is it confidence and self belief?
Speaker 10:I it's it's more exploration. So I actually messaged Dan the night before the race and because I was I was so nervous about the start ramp. I was nervous about how it would go. It was I'd just been to Oklahoma. I had some other, like, personal things going on, so I just didn't know how I was gonna race.
Speaker 10:And, like, and also where you're gonna stack up because I've never raced these women. I don't know how I stack up against them, and I have full respect for them. And I'm like, Dan, I just, like, I really don't wanna embarrass you. Like, this is his world of cycling. Like, I don't want to embarrass him in any way, shape, or form.
Speaker 10:And he's like, oh, don't worry. This should be, like, the lowest pressure race of your year because, like, you're a cyclist. Like, he even said he's like, imagine these women on the start line of a WTCS race and how they might be feeling. He's like, there is no reason for you to put any pressure on yourself. Like and so I think it's also, like, maybe, like, the best thing is being honest with those around you about how you're feeling regardless how that is before a race, and then they can help you or not.
Speaker 10:But, like, just putting it out there, like, this is how I'm feeling. This is what I'm worried about. This is what I'm excited about. And just, like, like, sorry. I I just am who I am in a way, and that's, like, liberating because it's, like, you're gonna get everything whether it's water or not.
Speaker 11:No. That's great. It. For sure. It's good.
Speaker 1:My interview with Tim O'Donnell was a special one for me, long time friend and long time training partner. It was great to reconnect in the studio and ask him some questions that I've asked him a 1000000 times on the bike, but to be able to share that on the podcast, all of you, was a awesome experience. We really spent a lot of time discussing his household dynamic with his wife, Marinda Carfray, being 3 time Ironman world champion and us sort of resonating, on the fact that it can be hard sometimes to be in the same house with, a partner who tends to win a lot of triathlons. Alright. Well, I do wanna talk obviously more about you and Renny's dynamic.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna I think Renny like, she's such an incredible athlete. She's won Kona 3 times.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, like, I wanna just highlight your results in Kona first before we talk about that. You know, Rinnie won in 2,010, 13, 2014. You were I don't know the exact years, but 4th, 5th, 3rd, 6th, 4th, and second in Kona.
Speaker 6:Sounds about right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I looked it up, so it is right. I think, like, I'm curious to hear more about, those years when you guys were both performing so highly in Kona. I think some of your good results, like your second, she was kind of exiting her Kona time. But I could understand, and I have felt it on a lower level how, like, if your spouse is winning the race, you're going there having insane performances, like, arguably as as good as anyone else is is racing in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, were those results getting overshadowed by Rinny winning the race?
Speaker 6:Probably, but deservedly so. Right? Like, I mean, she's still still the champ. Yeah. It's interesting.
Speaker 6:You look at my best races were probably 15, 18, and 19. Yep. And those were Renny's worst performances. So to some extent, you wonder like, is there so much energy in the family and Yeah. You know?
Speaker 6:Oh. Yeah. Yeah. It's always been a question for me, you know, like or you you or the the other knows that it's that athlete's turn or their partner's turn
Speaker 1:to Yeah.
Speaker 6:To shine. I don't know. But I remember 2015, I was pretty focused. You know, I really I've been not I've been in the top 5 and kinda like hovering and I'm like, I gotta, like, I gotta make some progress. And then, Renny got hit by a car before the race.
Speaker 6:And that's so that same night, the guy I was with, we're coming back from a, a sponsor appearance, and he passed out while driving. So he starts driving on a lee he into the other lane. Oh, boy. And, so I grabbed the wheel, like, pull us back, and then I hit the hand brake. I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 6:Like, we just almost, like yeah.
Speaker 1:Drove into the ocean there or into, you
Speaker 4:know, what's the coffee
Speaker 1:shop there?
Speaker 6:So I'm like, oh my god. So we come back, and I'm like eating dinner by myself just like, that was horrible. Yeah. And then she comes I hadn't seen her since she got hit by the car. So we're just both kinda sitting quietly at the dinner table like, what is going on?
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 6:But I knew I still I'm like, alright. This is my year. Like, I gotta
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 6:It's almost like there's, like, I was going through my stuff. She was going through her stuff and, you know, like, okay. Sorry right now. Like, we're focused internally. Yeah.
Speaker 6:And, that was a breakout for me with my first podium and an an unfortunate DNF for Renee. But, honestly, at that time, she was thinking about her having a family too. So, that was that was a tough year for her because she really wanted to, step back and and start a family. And then the DNF kind of forced her to go back in 16 before taking a break to have kids. So that was a tough time for her too.
Speaker 1:Yep. It is kind of an interesting one. I mean, at least from my perspective, it it's kind of a bummer because that's just how it works in the pro triathlon couple sphere, like, very, very rarely. And I know you guys feel this too. Do you both kinda are you both hitting it at the same time?
Speaker 1:That's on, like, the macroscopic level of, like, just every day to day. Yep. And then there's also this, like, very intense, microscopic level of, like, just both nail on it at the same day, at the same time, at the same race. I think it's easier to do at some lower level races. Like, Jeanne and I have done that before where we can both go to a 70.3x and both maybe win or get on the podium, and we're, like, all stoked and excited.
Speaker 1:But when it comes to maybe both of us preparing for a championship race or a big Ironman or something, like, it's so difficult. And I think at least what we found or what I've viewed is, like, there's just this it's not necessarily a discussion of, like, oh, okay. This year, you get 30%, and I'm gonna take 70%. Right. The next year, it'll flip and you get 70%, 30%.
Speaker 1:It's kind of just you, like, ride this wave or this arc of, like, if you're just on it, the energy balance flows that direction. And then, like, it just kinda works its way back. And over the course of a marriage, you know, Jeanne and I have been together married for 5 years. You guys have been married, you know, a long time too. Like, it Yeah.
Speaker 1:Works its way out in the end. Yeah.
Speaker 6:It's almost like the water flows like, water flows in the path of least resistance. Right. And it the the energy in the household kind of sees, you know, hey, they're this, you know, this person's on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 6:Right? Like, it's it's going, like, that's the right direction to flow.
Speaker 1:Yep. For sure. And you also, like, from a business perspective, you kinda need to capitalize upon that because if you invest the resources and the energy in the person, you need to help them enough to help them get out of the muck Yep. Or out of the tough time or out of the injury or out of the funk. But you can't go so far because, like, you need to put the resources where, like, where you can to, you know, like, make it work when when you're hot.
Speaker 6:You know? And I think that was that's a benefit too. I think I was able to focus more on Kona because we you know, both of us had established partnerships and Sure. Some financial stability. Whereas a lot of athletes, they wanna do well at Kona.
Speaker 6:They have the ability to do really well in Kona. But either at a greed or necessity, they've chased the money. And I another thing I learned from those younger years of 9 2009, 2010, I was chasing the races, chasing the money
Speaker 1:and Yeah.
Speaker 6:Also subsequently burning myself out Yeah. In the process. Right? 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's not easy. Resilient professional triathlete Andre Lopez popped in the studio. This was an awesome interview because I've spoken to this guy many times on the bike about, philosophy in life, and it's really awesome to see his positivity, and he showed that in this interview. He gives great lessons on how to overcome obstacles and generally how to have a great perspective on things.
Speaker 1:One thing I've always kind of like, you know, just as a friend and as as, like, a fan of all my friends and and, you know, triathlon in general, like, one thing I've really admired about you is kind of, like, your outlook and perspective. Like, you've always been so optimistic, generally positive, stoked on triathlon. Like, that's yeah. You're always willing to push hard. Is that something that you naturally possess, or do you wake up in the morning and be like, no.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna be super positive today and push myself.
Speaker 4:Nah. I think that's, like, kinda, like, one of my fortes, I guess. Like, I'm very positive guy. I always try to, like I mean, there's always somebody having a worst
Speaker 3:day in the US,
Speaker 4:to be honest. Like, if you look, like, at the broader scheme of things, like, man, we're doing triathlon. We are living in Boulder. Yeah. We're in the freaking mountains.
Speaker 4:We're not I mean, we're not having to see it on a desk job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We're doing what we love. Like, we're 30 years old. Like, I mean, there's worst thing happening in the world right now. So, like, I'm always trying to look, Rachel doesn't like, my girlfriend doesn't really like when I say this, but, like, it's like, yeah. I mean, it's definitely it's, it's something that I always try to keep in mind like that.
Speaker 4:There's other things going on in the world that is a lot worse than what we're doing right now. Even though if you're going through a rough patch or like something that is not really happening for you right now, like, is are not going your direction. I feel like, yeah, that's so that's when I'm having a bad day. I'm trying to think about other stuff and, like, just put triathlons in perspective so I can, like, focus on and actually have a good vibe for the day, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have to, like, actively recalibrate, or is it something where you're just like, it's natural for you to be like, okay. This day's going to crap, or I've had a race where something gone really bad and it has or I'm underperforming or I didn't finish the race or I'm sick or I'm hurt or whatever. Like, a good example is last week, you fell off your bike and crashed. Like, are you able to get right back up and be like, no. I'm gonna focus on the positive.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna get healthy. I'm gonna use this as a as a little reset. Like, it's what I needed anyways. Like, what's what's the thought process?
Speaker 4:Yeah. I mean, it definitely comes and goes. Of of course, there's some moments where he's like, oh my god. Like, I'm I'm having a hard time getting over this. Like but, yeah, like, something like this crash is like, oh my oh, you went down.
Speaker 4:Like, there's nothing you could have done about it now. Like, you're already down. You're already hurt. Good thing you didn't break anything. So you can that's a positive.
Speaker 4:Okay. Let's focus on healing because you cannot do anything else. Let's let's try to decrylate and focus. But I think all this stuff comes very natural for me because like, I know triathlon is not everything in my life. I really love and breathe triathlon.
Speaker 4:I I wanna be the best version of myself, but, like, I know at the end of the day that I, like, I don't, yeah, I don't I I don't need to be a world champion to be to be fulfilled, to be happy for the rest of my life. Like, I just wanna be the best version of myself. And if that's, like, a a stone in the way, like, I just I mean, I just have to deal with it and, like, just try to move on. But, like, yeah, it's definitely, like, the the the challenges are, like, also, like, opportunities for you to grow. I feel like Yeah.
Speaker 4:You come a lot stronger out of, like, harsh moments or challenges. You're the challenge that you have to overcome, they're gonna actually, like I mean, it's crazy, but if if you get people that are coming back from injury, like, I mean, Lucy Charles, like, other, they always come and, like, they have that fire inside them burning so hard. So I think you gotta use the challenges and the the the the struggles as fire to the fuel. And that's why I was trying to, like, okay. You you've done this.
Speaker 4:Like, you you you serve you already went through this 1 or 2 times in your life, so you can do it. Yeah. Just try to focus one day, another day, another dollar. Just one day, another one day in front of the other man, and, like, you gotta overcome it. Everything shall pass.
Speaker 4:So that's one of the other phrases that I always think about myself, like, everything shall pass. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What's the other one you told me all the time? Calm water never made a skilled sailor?
Speaker 4:A calm water never made a skilled sailor. Yeah. He tells me that all the time. That's all when you're going pee to pee getting, like, blown all by the wind. Like, I feel like that's like yeah.
Speaker 4:You're not gonna get better than your bike. You don't ride in the wind, my man.
Speaker 1:I never said I remember I remember running in 2020, and you just said that to me for the first time. And I was like, I I, like, use that as a mantra in Ironman. I was like, oh, calm water. Never make a skilled sailor. I'm gonna go a little bit harder right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, yeah, that
Speaker 1:was, I appreciate I always appreciate those little tidbits that you can pick up. And that's also the fun part about having training partners is, like, sometimes it's just, like, the little things someone says in training that, like, just help you tremendously. You know? Whether you're in the race or in a hard training session or just kinda, like, get through it. You know?
Speaker 1:Next up is doctor Matt Hanson. He specifically told me not to call him that, but I'm gonna do it anyways. And in this interview, it was really cool to be able to get an idea as to how this guy operates on his day to day. He's super multifaceted. He's a exceptional athlete, a great coach, a great businessman, and we dive into all of that in this episode.
Speaker 1:I wanna transition a little bit into some questions about your mindset and your approach. You've overcome some injuries in your career. What has been the hardest injury for you to overcome?
Speaker 8:I was in Kansas, prepping for the world champs and went out or the day before I left to Kansas, I did a a 22 plus mile run. Went awesome. Woke up the next morning, couldn't walk, and ended up, you know, just feeling like, ah, something was off in the back. It would be fine. So went down to Kansas and, turns out that I had a sacral stress fracture.
Speaker 8:Not a fun injury to deal with. It's still something that like daily mobility has to be a part of my everyday routine. Otherwise, I still get symptoms from that. Not that the bone isn't healed, but it just kind of irritates the nerves around there and firing patterns and everything. And so that's been an injury that you know obviously it cost me an ability to compete at the world championships, but it's also been one that I have to you know constantly get you know, stay on top of otherwise, symptoms come back.
Speaker 1:Yep. How do you know obviously, a sacral stress fracture is probably gonna be pretty easy to diagnose because the pain is probably gonna be pretty bad, but for a lot of athletes out there and myself included, there are these injuries that are kind of in the gray area where you can keep going, and maybe you're doing a little bit more damage, but also maybe you're not. And if you manage it, it's gonna be okay. How do you know when an injury is gonna be too bad?
Speaker 8:It it that's the hardest thing that we have to do. Right? Like, we always try to convince ourselves that we're fine especially for races coming up. I think that having somebody in your corner that you can be honest with and talk to like I see my PT once a week and, you know, I'll tell him everything that's hurting and he probably thinks I'm a hypochondriac sometimes. But like we just have the conversation and and I, you know, I have a circle of trust and, you know, of people that I I need in my corner and, you know, I take their advice very you know, I'm not gonna disregard it.
Speaker 8:And I think having that person that can be like,
Speaker 9:yeah.
Speaker 8:That's that might be a little bit more than just, you know, take some Aleve and put some ice on it or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. So it's a fine balance because if you keep kind of treading that line of, like, yeah, pushing it a little bit too much, you can get into trouble pretty quickly.
Speaker 8:Yeah. And I mean, we try to we we try to make the best decisions. That doesn't mean we're always gonna get it right. Right? We've, you know, that's the definition of an overuse injury right is is kind of getting getting that decision wrong.
Speaker 8:But, yeah, it being a repetitive and overuse or over distance sport, you know, those things are gonna happen and you just gotta try to do the best you can to avoid them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And this is me maybe making excuses for all of us as professionals, but I do feel like there is an added element of pressure when so much of our livelihood is tied into it. So much of our self worth is tied into the performances. You've invested, you know, 30 hours a week for a year going into a big race sometimes. And if you have an injury going in, you're just like, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna bore John and deal with it later. Yeah. Is it hard to if you ultimately make that decision to bore John, are you okay with paying the consequences, or is it still equally difficult?
Speaker 8:I I mean, anytime you go into a race and don't get the don't get the result that you want, it's frustrating. Right? Like, you know, you said you're investing, what, 30 hours a week of training plus all the other things. I mean, we have really 5 opportunities a year to make money and that's not to make money for this year it's to make money for the next couple years because, you know, like partnership deals go on a year, you know, couple year swings and and so, yeah I mean we're probably making the more aggressive or risk, yeah risky decision a lot of times. Yeah.
Speaker 8:But you know hopefully more times than not they pay off but they don't always And you have to you have to be willing to go into a race knowing that there if there is risk, you have to be willing to accept the consequences and have the mental, capacity to be like, yeah. I I knew that going in, it might go this way, and it did.
Speaker 1:Alright. We had Rudy Von Berg in the studio hot off the heels of his 3rd place in Kona, which was an absolutely epic performance. We spoke in this episode a lot about how he's just been consistent in his training. He puts his blinders on. He does exactly what he needs for himself, and he's just stayed the course to build up to that amazing performance.
Speaker 1:How did you predict so accurately that your form was in that place, and what was pointing to the fact that a top 5 or in the actuality of the case, a podium was in the cards?
Speaker 12:Yeah. I was just kinda more comparing to myself. Like, again, if if I look at all the new arrow setups the guy guys have and the fitness they're they have or that they show, you know, it's always easy to be insecure and think, oh, well, yeah. Actually or or look at your objectives, kinda look them think they should be a bit lower. But, I knew compared to myself, I was hitting really good sessions.
Speaker 12:As I told you, that 2 hour run off the bike, for example, or, some bike sessions. You know, I get you get to a point in some builds where just the power feels so good and easy, you know, like usually 280 watts for 30 minutes plus for me is quite hard. And when you get to a point where that's just no problem at all Yeah. Well then I know on race day, I'll be able to push 290, 300 for 4 hours plus. And so I know when I'm at that kind of shape that even though people crush training and it looks like they can do 320 for the Ironman, I know they never end up performing like that on race day.
Speaker 12:So I just know I'll be kinda in that competitive, top 5. But I mean, I'm also well aware that a lot of guys can have good races and, you know, I'm really gonna have to be on my game. It's not like, oh, for sure I'm top 5. Like, I'm really concentrated on my process and I'm getting in my best shape possible. Like, yeah, I noticed the whole thing's gonna be quite hard.
Speaker 12:For the podium, specifically, I actually thought it's I think it's always like that. When you achieve something, you're like, actually it wasn't that bad, you know? And when you're chasing it for years, you're like, oh my God, I'm gonna have to have this insane performance to be on the podium in Kona. But then when you do it, you're, you're kinda like, like it wasn't and that's actually what I think of my performance. I think it was very good on the day.
Speaker 12:Obviously, a lot of guys faded a lot on the run. But, you know, it wasn't I didn't I don't feel like I transcended myself. Maybe like I mentioned in some past half ironmans. Sure. I I did I mean, 290 watts is very good, especially in the heat, and especially being able to run after.
Speaker 12:But again, I thought actually I would have gonna have to push 300. So a bit shy as what I thought would be for a podium. And then on the run, well, even a bit more. The run is a bit long, so official time, 248. On my training peaks marathon time, I had 24650.
Speaker 4:Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 12:So, yeah, a bit quicker. Because, for example, you know, you look at Roth marathon times. Technically, on the official time, I'm 5 minutes slower in Kona. Yep. But, actually, I'm one second a k slower.
Speaker 12:Right. So just 40 seconds slower is almost exactly the same. Sure. And one was 243 and one was 248. So I think that's important to look at too.
Speaker 12:Yeah. So as I was explaining, just I don't feel like I think I did I executed really well and had obviously a really good race, but I didn't transcend myself and do what I thought I would have to do to be on the podium.
Speaker 1:Sure. In a race like that, where you've got such big hitters, Laidlaw, Christian, Magnus, are you looping yourself into, like, your own prerace thoughts of how the race dynamic's gonna go, Or are those guys in your mind are you intimidated by them at all, I guess, is the question?
Speaker 12:I mean, a little. I mean, they're they were the favorites. Yeah. Christian Dyatlov and Laidlaw, top three favorites. Definitely thought if they're on their game, you know, it's gonna be very hard to get on the podium if all 3, perform to what they can do.
Speaker 12:But, you know, it's Kona and people, a lot of things can go wrong. And I mean, that's the sport. Right? You can't say, oh, you got 3rd or 5th or whatever because this guy bonked. I mean, a big thing of Ironman is not bonking.
Speaker 12:Right?
Speaker 1:Oh, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 12:So obviously, you can't say any of that. And, executing on the on the race day is is the hardest thing.
Speaker 4:For
Speaker 12:sure. So, yeah. I mean, they're in the back of your mind. Obviously, they're they're the best right now. But, yeah.
Speaker 12:Again, just you have to focus on your performance and because what the best out of yourself is the only thing that can potentially beat them. Sure. Not worrying about them and trying to follow them or whatever. So
Speaker 1:Chelsea Sodaro needs absolutely no introduction, Ironman world champion, and she was a real breath of fresh air in the studio. It was amazing to be able to chat to her about multiple different topics. She's a bit of a polarizing figure, and we touch on some of those aspects during this interview. And, you know, she's been at the top of the sport, but I really feel and she feels as though she still has the best yet to come. 2024, off incredibly strong.
Speaker 1:You know, you had 2 wins back to back, 70.3 Tasmania, Ironman New Zealand. I was actually at Ironman New Zealand, watched you perform incredibly well there. You just dominated the race. When did you feel like you started needed to start making some changes to your team? Because, like, you said, in 2022, it was kind of a tight knit group.
Speaker 1:Was it a matter of, okay. Now I'm a bigger brand. I have more resources at my disposal. I'm gonna take advantage of that, or did you feel as though in order to get to the next step, you needed to start making some changes?
Speaker 13:I think that some things just run their course. And what maybe served us at one point in our lives or work, you you know, doesn't serve us later on. And we're all evolving and learning and changing and growing. And, you know, this year, I've had a lot of time to reflect on what I want for this next phase of my career, and I was quite overwhelmed with, you know, like, the immediate success that came with the Kona win. And it was such a privilege to be able to make a lot of choices, about my team and sponsorships.
Speaker 13:But I think this year, I've really gone back to, you know, like, a smaller, tight knit group of people who are really around me for the right reasons and who really wanna win, but also care about me as an individual. And, like, ironically, I believe that's when athletes perform their best when the people that they're working with are not in transactional relationships. Right? Like, they really lift you up as a human, and they are there for you on the good days and the bad days. And I had to take a hard look at, you know, who I was involved with and, yeah, see if I was on the right path for myself and made some really big changes this summer.
Speaker 13:I do not think that I would have made it to the start line in Nice without those changes. I feel really strongly about that. I have like, this is the happiest, I think, I've been in my career and the most supported I felt in my career. In Nice, I was there with Steve, my husband, my mental coach, David Spindler, and my strength coach, Matt Pandola and just felt so uplifted and joyful. And, like, they were all there because they wanted to be there, and they believed in me.
Speaker 13:But no matter how the race went, you know, they would be there the day after and in it with me for the long haul. I think, you know, some of the chain changes in sponsorship and in and coaching, like, I'm not seeing the immediate rewards of that right now. These are, like, decisions for next year and the year after and to keep me in this game for the next 5 years, but really excited about where things are headed.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, you mentioned it. I think, like, it's cliche, but a happy athlete is a fast athlete. So even if there's not, like, you're seeing a physiological improvement in 2 months' time, yeah, you're not gonna see that. But if you are happy, you're gonna race better.
Speaker 1:You're gonna enjoy it more. It's gonna reap rewards in the short term. And, you know, like you said, you might have not even made it to Nice without those changes. So that's huge. I mentioned a few times on the podcast, but I'm a huge fan of track and field.
Speaker 1:So getting the opportunity to interview Drew Hunter was really cool for me. We were able to dive deep into the world of sponsorship and professional running, what it takes to be really competitive in the US. And in addition, the sort of ever changing landscape of NIL and college athletics. I'm curious to hear more about the actual, like, contract itself because from what the Internet says, that was a 10 year contract. Is that correct?
Speaker 11:I think it was 9 years. Okay. It's, like, it's so so funny that we're actually having this podcast. I'm in like, my contract's up, and I'm in negotiations now with my agent and with sponsor my my sponsor to figure out another contract. So it's actually really funny that we are talking about this.
Speaker 11:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like, because I'm I'm really interested in the business side of the sport. Like, in triathlon, you know, the sponsorship's kind of a big big deal of, you know, what we do, and it's maybe a little bit different because it's a bit more piecemeal. You've got a lot of different sports going on, and I think the contracts are less significant. I feel like from what I understand with big professional running contracts, it's kind of like enough to sustain you maybe for your life. Whereas in triathlon, those are maybe a little bit more difficult to come across.
Speaker 1:You kinda have to piece together maybe 5 or 10 Yeah. Smaller sponsors to make it sort of, the equivalent of 1 Nike sponsorship or Adidas sponsorship. But at the time when you sign a 9 year contract, is that something that's going around? Like or is that unusual?
Speaker 11:Yeah. Very unusual. Most contracts are 2 to 4 years for runners, the Olympic cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 11:That's sort of how you know, if you're coming out of college and you've run pretty well, you're an all American and the Olympics are in 2 years, the company's probably gonna sign you a 2 year deal. Or if, say, the Olympics just happened and you're a top athlete and you're a stud, you'll probably get a 4 year deal with a company through the Olympics because a lot of the bonuses, a lot of sort of the financial incentives are around the Olympics because it's such a big deal for our sport and, you know, world championships and, you know, sort of the those are the high level races. But yeah. So that's how it works. My contract was rare because I was one of the first people ever that signed a pro high school deal.
Speaker 11:There was a few sprinters and there was a few female athletes that have done it, but even Alan Webb, who's sort of, like, you know, the legend of had all the high school records, He went to Michigan for a year, didn't work out, and then signed a pro contract with Nike. So sort of the route I took was a little different, and we've since then seen a few other people do it. Hobbs Kessler, who was 5th in the Olympics in the 1500 went pro. Totally. Josh Hoey, who just ran 143 in the 800, went pro out of high school.
Speaker 11:Ironically, all all Adidas athletes, which is cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 11:But, yeah, I it's that's a really long running contract, and, you know, running's weird because a lot of careers, the longer you stay in the career, the more money you make because, you know, you're working up and you're taking on more responsibility, running sort of the opposite. People get really excited about you when you're young and then the older you get, you're kind of, kicked to the kick to the curb and you, you know, you're you're you're, old news and so, you know, obviously, running's gotten a little bit better with, you know, for the financial situation, and I feel like companies are really actually supporting people and allowing them to, you know, be professionals. And we can't be professionals if we're not getting paid livable wages, obviously.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, nowadays, it's completely different than the landscape was 10 years ago. You know, you've got the introduction of the NIL money coming in. How much of your experience was dictated purely by the dollars and cents that someone like Adidas is coming and offering versus just the opportunity to race professionally. Because nowadays, you have the NIL, you know, situation where a company like on Adidas or Nike can come in, sponsor a collegiate athlete for probably similar value to whatever you were getting paid as a high schooler, and they can still have that college experience.
Speaker 11:Yeah. I mean, I think that something that, you know, I I love sort of the quote, there are no solutions. There's only trade offs. And I completely feel this way about sort of, you know, the whole landscape of NIL deals and running. When you're a college kid, you have the best setup you're probably ever gonna get.
Speaker 11:Even the top top top dogs have to figure out their physios, have to figure out their strength coaches. Everything in college is given to you. You're told when to get on your flights. Your flights are paid for. So if you're a college kid, sign a n I NIL deal, be get a get a degree, have teammates, have a coach, have a strength coach, have all the facilities you need, have all your travel paid for, and, you know, save or invest that money that you're getting, and you'll come out of college in a really good spot.
Speaker 11:That wasn't the case when I was, and that's probably what I would have explored if I was, you know, looking back on things. But I also just think college kids are super valuable. I mean, NCAA sports are people love them. So I think, you know, like I was saying earlier, a lot of your value is tied to your age in our sport and said, like, the younger you are and if you're, you know, really killing it out on the cross country course or on the track, like, that that's when you have to capitalize and have to make the most of, you know, your financial situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's super positive for running as a whole. I mean, you look at, like, Parker Valbi or Nico Young. Like, these athletes are offering so much value, and I think, yeah, they're getting paid correlate to what their value is Yeah. To what they're bringing to the sport.
Speaker 1:So that's really cool. He didn't mention himself when I asked him who the most talented athlete was in town, but I would put Morgan Pearson in that running for sure. This is one of the strongest and most talented dudes that I've ever been around. He has the qualities to be able to make the Olympic triathlon team twice and secure 2 medals, but also has the talent to be able to run with some of the best professional runners in the world, and we dive into that in this episode. Cool.
Speaker 1:I wanna just talk a little bit. I have a whole line of questions here about, like, your, maybe marriage or collaboration between running at a high level and doing triathlon. So you just ran a 61 minute half marathon in Valencia, which is like you know, that's professional running time.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's very, very competitive. When did you decide that you were gonna maybe incorporate some more running into your into what you're doing, I guess, in, like, the last couple?
Speaker 2:Like running races?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like running races. Or, like, the cross country championships you've done in winter and stuff? Like, when did that sort of why why was triathlon maybe, how did you feel as if did you feel as if that was gonna be an addition to your triathlon thing, or is it its own thing?
Speaker 2:Well, I think each running race is kind of its own unique thing. So, for example, the I ran US Cross Country in January, and, I took a, like, all of October off, and I got, you know, to be honest, I got, like, I put on a little bit of weight and got out of shape. And, I wasn't the first WTS was in March, but it's in Abu Dhabi, and I'd since I already qualified for Paris, I was like, I don't wanna fly out there. I wanna just, you know that's a lot. It's a lot of travel to go out there for a sprint distance race.
Speaker 2:The year before, I went out there and I got COVID, and I was just I just want I I wanna optimize for Paris, whatever. So in that case, I I almost just wanted something to sign up for and get me motivated to train, and, like, it it served its purpose. I mean, I was training as a triathlete. So that one was a little more like, this is kinda just you you know, it's you know, I'm I could train without a race, but it does help to have something on the on the calendar and, you know, get excited, especially in those, those winter months, shorter days. And, obviously, you know you know, this summer just feels so far away.
Speaker 2:Like, it for that for me, it was, like, almost a motivation thing.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:The half, you know, that one was, you know, I that was more like I actually had a goal, in mind, and it was after the Olympics. And, you know, I I wanted to go there and, you know, I enjoy it. You know, to be honest, I enjoy it. You know, it was after the Olympics, so I felt a little bit it you know? Maybe did it take away from triathlon?
Speaker 2:I don't I don't think so. I mean, it was after the WTS, the final, and, I don't think it really took anything away. I actually swam and biked, you know, quite well there. So, the run was actually the one that was not good. So, yeah, I don't think it took anything away, but that that was more just I wanna, you know, see what I can do in a half, in a fast half.
Speaker 2:It was one of those things where the the grand final was in Spain, and Valencia was the weekend after. And I remember seeing that on the calendar over, maybe, like, in June or something, like, way before and just being like, oh, like, that could be really cool. So, each running race is kind of its own it's not like I'm you know, it's like, I need to run this time to be in this shape to run this time off the bike. It's more like it's more just, each is unique.
Speaker 1:Yep. Are you doing anything in training in preparation for these races? Like, even if it's subconsciously or in the back of your mind, like, in the build up to the grand final in Valencia, are you out there doing your 4, 3, 2, 1 run and thinking, ah, I gotta push this a little bit?
Speaker 2:It's funny because I totally. I mean, I would say when I was swimming, I was focused on the final. When I was biking, I was focused on the final. When I was, you know, trying to eat healthy in the gym, go to bed on time, whatever. All that stuff, I was focused on the final.
Speaker 2:But when I was running, I was focused on Valencia. Yeah. For sure. Like, in that from, like, Paris until, you know, from my when I took a little break to, like, doing doing those races, it was like it was like when I was in the run workouts, like, that was that was my focus, if I'm being honest. And I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Was there any moment or in reflection, have there been moments where you're thinking about your training and you're beating other high class professional runners, like, at the cross country championship or at Valencia and thinking, like, there's something to triathlon training that's allowing me to be really competitive off not professional running mileage.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's I think that's a really, that's a great question, and I think the answer is not, crystal clear to me because there is aspects of triathlon training that I think really do, you know, help me excel as a runner. But there's also aspects of triathlon being a triathlete triathlon training that I think detract from being a good runner. I mean, let's just like, physics, like, carrying around £12 of, you know, upper body muscle is you know, that's helping me swim, and I need it for the triathlon. But, like, just from a physics like, that's that's not helping me run.
Speaker 2:Like, let's just be honest.
Speaker 12:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So but I'm also getting in, you know, whatever, however many more hours in the pool on the bike that I you know, non weight born, excuse me, non weight bearing, you know, quote, unquote, cross training. Sure. So I I think it's a nuanced question, and, I I don't have a perfect answer, but it's it's let's put it this way. If I ran, you know, whatever, I'm running 50 to 60 miles a week and didn't do the cross training, I don't think I'd be running, you know, getting 4th in US cross or, you know, running 61. But if I was purely focused on running, maybe doing a little cross training as kind of a complimentary, piece, I think I think I could run faster than what I am.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:Our final episode of 2024 was with Precision Fuel and Hydration founder, Andy Blau. It was really cool to be able to understand how to build a business, how he's built up precision from the ground to where it is today, and sort of just get his take on something he's super passionate about and that I'm obviously very passionate about as well, endurance sports. One thing that I've really noticed and admired about Precision, and we've worked with you guys for quite some time, my wife, Jeannie, and I, and we've seen sort of, like, the evolution of your brand and this big takeoff, I would say, probably in the last, like, 4 or 5 years, things have really sort of taken off, and maybe you can speak to that a little bit, in a bit. But I'm curious if there was anything that you guys did from a branding perspective or a marketing perspective that really allowed you to take big jumps at one
Speaker 7:time. Yeah. A lot of people have said what exactly what you've said, which is really nice to hear that we've we've seen to have really taken off in the last 4 years. And and in some ways, we have because we've we've kind of been on this sort of slightly ex you know, kind of exponential growth path for a little while, you know, with the size of the business almost sort of doubling year on year. And that doesn't really get on anyone's radar while you're tiny, you know, because doubling is still significant, but it's kind of insignificant in the bigger scheme of things when you're tiny anyway.
Speaker 7:But you get to a certain point where, actually, if you can keep that momentum up, then all of a sudden people are like, wow. You're you're kind of everywhere. Yeah. I think there's I think there's 2 two totally different things, though, that have helped us to get that that presence, really. The first one was that up until 2021, we were just precision hydration, and we were just doing hydration products and sweat testing, which was a growing niche, but it's still a niche within a niche.
Speaker 7:We were getting asked about fueling all the time, but we weren't ready to take the step to do it. COVID and having time back at base, we weren't traveling, and we had to really think about what the next phase of the business looked like meant that we launched the fuel products. And launching those, we we were very fortunate in the over 10 years of having a hydration business. We'd got a loyal customer base, and we got immediate adoption by people that were using the fuel hydration products and the fueling products. And then we've kind of figured out along the way that actually people do tend to use way more fueling products way more regularly than they do hydration.
Speaker 7:So that was a big that was a big lever that we were able to pull by having a customer base and giving them a product. Most of it I would say almost everyone who was buying a hydration product from us was buying a gel from someone else. And so there was, like, a big opportunity there for us to say, well, you know, you trust us with your hydration. Maybe maybe you can now trust us with your fueling. The second one is kind of the thing that's, you know, points at it beyond my head is the color stripes, which
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 7:Which is like a a thing that came from working. My my brother does a lot of our graphics and and design. He's very creative. And early on, we designed the products to have the 4 original hydration products for green for 250, yellow for 500, orange for a1000, and purple for 1500. And they sort of the colors get a little bit more darker and intense as you go through, and that was deliberate.
Speaker 7:But we'd never used it as part of the brand. They were just colors. And then we put I don't really even remember exactly how it happened, but we but we put the color bands on a hat. And then all of a sudden, like, everybody wanted the hat, everyone that we met, and we're like, this is something. If people want it and then we started to incorporate it in more places, then it became part of the logo eventually.
Speaker 7:And now I think, you know, I actually had a I literally had a tear in my eye at Kona this year because I stood in in transition area, like, looking around at the bikes on race morning, and, like, I couldn't look anywhere without seeing those bottles with the and I was like, wow. You know, we've we've arrived here now. If there was a bottle count, I think we'd have won it, or certainly we have in terms of being noticeable. And so, yes, with a lot of pride that we see the color stripes around, and I think they are just pretty unique.
