Matt Hanson: Ironman Champion, Building the Future of Coaching, and New Dad
In the studio today, doctor Matt Hanson. Matt is an Ironman professional triathlete. He is currently ranked number 1 in the Ironman pro series, which is super impressive after a very successful 2024 season. In today's conversation, we dive into how he got into triathlon, a little bit of his, exercise science background and his formal education as a doctor, which is very cool. In addition, we talk about his mindset, and we talk a little bit about his coaching relationships and some of the specifics around exercise science because it's an area that him and I are both super passionate about, and he's very knowledgeable in the in that department.
Speaker 1:So we talk about some cool specific topics in that area. Overall, really enjoyed my conversation with Matt. It was great to catch up with him. So enjoy today's episode with doctor Matt Hanson. Alright.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another episode of the Endurance Matters podcast. I'm your host, Justin Metzler. I'm joined in studio today by Matt Hanson, Ironman Triathlete. Matt, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:So I start all the podcasts off with a hard hitting icebreaker question. If your pain cave could talk, what is the most embarrassing thing it would say about you?
Speaker 2:Why do you talk to yourself so much?
Speaker 1:Is there a lot of self dialogue going on?
Speaker 2:On on some sessions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think when when you get one of those sets that you have to go to, to a dark place to get to, sometimes you gotta encourage yourself to get into that dark place.
Speaker 1:Are the dogs looking at you? Like, what what's going on? Rocky's usually down there.
Speaker 2:He he's a loyal dog. He he sits down there and, you know, you know, it's been a tough session when he starts drinking the pool sweat. Oh, totally. Yeah. As long
Speaker 1:as it's not blood, you're fine. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. As long as
Speaker 1:because sometimes it is blood. I'm sure. But, I wanna hear a little bit more right off the bat. Talk to me a little bit about how you got into the sport of triathlon.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It happened a little bit by accident. When I was 16, wrestling was was what I love to do and I was at a wrestling camp and was encouraged by one of my mentors there to make a list of 50 goals for the next 10 years. So put a a 10 year timeline on it. And I took that relatively, serious and carried that piece of paper around for 10 years.
Speaker 2:And and, when I was, you know, kind of look at it every year on my birthday and when I was 25 I was like what can I still go after on this list? And that was one thing that I could still do was I think number 47 or 48 was to do an Ironman triathlon. So I wasn't a swimmer. I didn't really I mean I wouldn't drown but I wasn't, you know, really knowing how to swim at all. Hadn't rode a road bike ever.
Speaker 2:You know, I would run, but it was not a natural fit for the whole sport but I think I had seen the NBC special of the Kona edition once as a kid and just doing an Ironman looked cool for at that point and so I threw it on the list and I was getting pretty desperate to get to, you know, the last ten things on there. I think, my mom was a big Friends fan, and I think well, the thing right after was own a monkey because one of the people on Friends had a monkey. So that's how desperate I was just to fill out this list, but, you know, that one didn't happen, by the way.
Speaker 1:Not yet. Not yet. Not yet.
Speaker 2:Well yeah. So yeah. It was the plan you know at that point you still had to sign up a year in advance and I was working on my master's in Minnesota so I was living alone had a bit of time on my hands and started training for this, Ironman. Bought a $500 used bike on Ebay and ate nothing but ramen and pop tarts for a couple months so I could afford this $500 bike and the registration fee. And then, yeah.
Speaker 2:Did my first Ironman at Coeur d'Alene and planned on being a one and done, but ended up qualifying for Kona there and that kinda snowballed things, forward. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And from there, you pretty much went from age grouper to pro somewhat quickly. Walk me through that journey and sort of the timeline from age group athlete to professional.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the first Ironman I did was 2011 Coeur d'Alene, and, and then I did Kona that year. And then the next year, I just did a few 70.3s. At at that that point I thought I found my lifelong hobby and was really just focusing on trying to get a little bit better and be able to race a little bit more. So I just did 70.3s in, 2012 and then 2013.
Speaker 2:I set the goal at the beginning of the year to win the overall age group in Kona and, went to Texas. That went pretty well, and ended up qualifying for Kona or for for Kona there and earning my my pro card at that race. I've never intended on taking it but went to Kona triple flatted. So 2 flats at once. I had 2, 2 repair kits and and one of them didn't hold and so that was kind of I sat around for about 20 minutes waiting for somebody to help and you know still ended up having a decent day, but it wasn't what I wanted and so I took my pro card so I could race Ironman Arizona a couple weeks later, and that's kind of why I went pro.
Speaker 2:I was a college professor at the time. Had no aspirations of doing this for a living at that point.
Speaker 1:Was the training talk to me a little bit about the training itself. So when you first started doing triathlon, were you coaching yourself? And what was the intensity of the training from an age group perspective? And did it change when you ultimately decided to go pro?
Speaker 2:Yeah. When I was coaching myself for the 1st couple years, it was well, the 1st year was really just building a aerobic base to get to the finish line. I was a professor of exercise science which helped a little bit, in understanding what I needed to do. But I was also really time crunched because, I was a professor but I was also working as an athletic trainer so spending a lot of time standing on the field for college teams and traveling with them and so, you know, it was great because the pool was open for 55 minutes over the lunch hour and it was 30 steps from my office. And so I would have a 1 o'clock class, but be able to get a full swim in and, you know, so I would I was just so time crunch I was having to go hard all the time, for especially for swim and then bikes I was doing at like 8 o'clock at night, which I absolutely hate doing now if I'm working out after 3 o'clock.
Speaker 2:It's it's been a really bad day. But yeah so the intensity was there mainly out of lack of time. And then when I kind of shifted to pro, started working with a coach for the first couple times, we kept the intensity minutes about the same, but started adding a lot more aerobic volume around that.
Speaker 1:Sure. Yeah. And then from there, you spent a couple years balancing that, that act of trying to work and train at the same time. How was that for you? Was it difficult to balance the work and the training?
Speaker 1:Did it ultimately come to a point where you're like, well, this is too much? How was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was definitely difficult. At you know, around that time, I was shifting more into the teaching side of things rather than and, you know, I'd finished up my doctorate so I was kind of moving more onto the faculty 10 year track position. So that opened up a little bit more time but I was still sacrificing, family time a lot, which is a little bit too common, I think in this sport but, you know, we made it work but it wasn't the ideal situation and it put a lot of the day to day household things on my wife and, you know, she was doing them but you know there's there's only so much that you can take advantage of that and it was kind of getting to the point where that balance wasn't in the right direction and it needed to kind of shift. What was the kind of determining factor was I drove down, tire for Ironman Texas in 2015 ended up winning the race then you go back at midnight and hand out the finisher medals you know and you're kind of amped up it was a it was a big race you know North American championships my biggest race at that point for sure and then was in the pool at you know early the next morning and did the whole award speech and then had to drive 17 and a half hours back home and then went straight to the school, taught 8, 9, and 10 o'clock classes.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they're dynamite lectures. And, you know, at that point, it was like you can't keep doing this and, being as successful as you want to be in the sport. And so had a couple long conversations with with Ash and it was, you know, kinda came down to I wanted to be able to look back at the end of my career and know if I had what it takes to reach my goals rather than wonder what if. And so we made the decision that it was possible to to step away.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You mentioned that tenure track. So were you on track? Were you on talk to me about that. Was what does that mean, and what were the implications from you leaving that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I just passed midpoint review in in 2015. And so that midpoint review, basically, it says that I donned all the requirements. They don't let you pass midpoint review unless they're gonna grant you tenure. You just kind of have to put your your time in.
Speaker 2:So I'd done the publication side of things. I'd done the service side of things, and, the teaching record was was okay. So, so I kind of ticked all the boxes. I just kind of had to put in another year and a half and that made it a little bit more difficult because, you know, Ashlyn and I are definitely planners and our plan you know, she was working at the same university that I was teaching at and so our plan was that we would just be there for a long time and we'd built a house and you know done all this stuff to put kind of roots down in in, Storm Lake. And that kind of slowly changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure. Slowly and rapidly at the same time. I'm sure. I guess, like, what was the major difference that you saw straight away?
Speaker 1:I guess that was was that April time that that decision was made?
Speaker 2:So Ironman Texas was May at that time. So it's right at the end of the school year there, and I proceeded to have the worst year of racing that I've had in my career from the end of May till the end of May the next year, essentially. And a lot of that was because I went from the sport being my hobby the way I got rid of stress to now feeling like I had to perform in order to feed or, like, to provide for my family. Sure. And the the focus wasn't there.
Speaker 2:I was making business decisions during races rather than just burying myself. It was like, oh, if I can just catch this guy, it's a 1,000 more dollars or whatever. Like and that's that's not how I perform well. I perform the best when I'm having fun. I perform best when I'm there for to find out how much I can get out of myself.
Speaker 2:Obviously, you have to be able to perform to keep doing that, But the focus was solely on per on outcomes, and I needed it to get it back into process. And it took me a year to figure that out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can understand how that's tough though because you come to the sport from a relatively late perspective. You have this position that is get giving you the income that you need to sustain your life, and then all of a sudden that's removed and the pressure to fill it is there. And I wanna circle back to that later in the podcast, but I wanna keep on this sort of trajectory that we're on. Ultimately, you decide that you don't wanna be an Iowa anymore, or circumstance, maybe decided that for you. But tell talk to me a little bit about the move from Iowa to Colorado where you guys are now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Circumstances, decided that a little bit for us, I guess. You we the training setup wasn't all that bad there. I didn't have anybody to train with but I could do intervals straight out my door. You know, I can run anywhere and I had a pool that was open enough and then the pool shut down during COVID like pretty much all of them did and they basically announced that they weren't gonna open it back up and the nearest pool was about 40 minutes away.
Speaker 2:And so like that was just kind of a dagger. We I couldn't do that sustainably year round, and so it was either I have to travel a lot to do camps whether it was in Boulder. And I was coming to Colorado anyways a bit because Julie was here and going to, you know, camps wherever we that they took us, Saint George and and New Mexico. Yeah. We did.
Speaker 2:El, where was that? Hatch. No. The road hatch. Hatch was, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wasn't Santa Fe. It was down south. I'm blanking on the name.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's how big it was. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Down by El Paso. Somewhere down there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We rode the hatch. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the hatch.
Speaker 2:And then we we did, Vegas. Las Cruces.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Las Cruces. Yes. And then Vegas. Vegas.
Speaker 2:I think you were patient 0.
Speaker 1:Oh, you were patient 0 of COVID. A 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But so it was either gonna be do that or, we had to find somewhere else. And, Ash was offered a job in, south of Denver. And and so that kind of created an opportunity to bring us out here.
Speaker 1:What about, do you miss those Farmer Bob massages? Was it Farmer Bob? What was the guy's name?
Speaker 2:Oh, man. Yeah. It it was we we went back and and visited Storm Lake and 2 years ago. So we've been here for 2 years, and we went back. We haven't been there since.
Speaker 2:And both Ash and I left thinking, man, this has so many of the things that we want in life, but none of what we need. Like pool access and training partners and, like, yeah, the bodywork, reg you know, regular all the things that are necessary, you know, especially as I get a little bit older to Sure. You know, maintain.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. So it seems as though you couldn't necessarily come to Boulder because Ashley didn't have a job lined up here. Was it's Castle Rock where you guys are now?
Speaker 1:Is that difficult for you? Because it's almost you're in Boulder a lot, but it's almost, like, a little bit too far away, but you seem to make it work just fine. You're here a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Can you
Speaker 1:talk me through that?
Speaker 2:I mean, during when the pandemic was still going on and everybody was working from home, it was easy because, you know, it's it's a hour drive and with no traffic. And so even now, I get here in an hour in the morning. So as long as I leave before 5:45, I can get here right in about an hour. Getting home it's sometimes 2 and a half hours so that's definitely weighs on me but I I come up twice a week and it's really, to have a swim group. You know, obviously getting some face time with Julie is important.
Speaker 2:But you know now that that Tim kind of, is pursuing other things, Tio, you know, I don't have anybody left in the squad to to really do a lot of riding with. You know, I'll run with the group on the track and things like that in the mornings as the first sessions, but it's really to have somebody to swim with. But, you know, I don't mind doing a lot of the run and bike training on my own. Swim training, I definitely miss, you know, if I didn't have a group, it would I would struggle a little bit more. And I think that's one of the biggest things that changed, when I when I moved to Colorado is is I started being comfortably in that second pack or possibly making the back of the first pack rather than having to extend myself to make the back of the second pack.
Speaker 2:And, and I think a lot of that is just having good people to work with. And, I think that's helped the racing significantly, and and it still makes it worth me driving up here a couple days a week, even if it's a lot of car time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A 100%. I think 99% of professional triathletes would look at the potentially three and a half hours of commuting and be like, there's absolutely no way I'm making that happen. Do you think your background as a professor managing triathlon and home life and teaching and everything else that you had to do sort of set you up for the ability to have that be part of your routine?
Speaker 2:Maybe a little bit. I I'm I think all of that helped me be really good at time management. And so on the I try to line up coaching calls, Tuesday Thursday afternoons on the drive home. And so, you know, it that's time that's not wasted. It's time that I've got to spend.
Speaker 2:So if I'm gonna be in the car, use that, give the attention to the athletes that I'm working with. And then in the mornings, I try to call my dad or or talk to my mom. They're in a different time zone. So when I'm driving up at at 6 o'clock that's 7 o'clock their time so they're on the way to work. So, it's it's allowed me to, you know, in the afternoons kind of use that time to, you know, I'm gonna have to do those calls anyway so use that efficiently even now.
Speaker 2:So it it it what else am I gonna do at at 6 in the morning? And so it kinda helps me give a dedicated time to connect with extended family.
Speaker 1:Yep. I know this, but I think the viewers would be very interested about a typical Tuesday or a typical Thursday. So maybe pick 1. You already walked me through what you did today, but pick a super typical Thursday or Tuesday, or you can even use today as an example and walk me through the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the Julie's is famous for terrible terrible Tuesdays. It's a a 7 AM run session. Today was just 2 by 20. Not terribly difficult because we're getting close to a big race.
Speaker 2:And then, I had a bike set or a so that was 7 and then at 9, was in the pool with with her group and it was a pretty pretty spicy set. It was basically the main set was 38100 on a pretty tight interval in in meters. So yeah. It was basically on 120, for the for the entire set straight through and then straight onto the bike for a 45 minute hard session to basically mimic what you've got coming out of the water, to manage the the first punches that you're gonna get thrown, during the during the bike leg. And then I went out for for 2 hours after that, again on the bike and, you know, all that was done by 1:30 so I could come here and talk to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then so you squeak in a podcast after this, and then are you back in the car and you're driving home? You try and beat the traffic?
Speaker 2:Well, there's just no beating the traffic in the afternoons anymore. If you're if you're not on the road by 1 o'clock, you're gonna you're gonna sit in a bit of traffic.
Speaker 1:Alright. So I'm making Matt sit in the traffic on the way home, but it's gonna be worth this. This is gonna be a good podcast. So you're gonna sit in 2 hours of traffic on the way home. And then what about when you get home?
Speaker 1:What time do you think you'll be home this evening?
Speaker 2:Hopefully home around 5:30 and then, yeah, help Ash would typically, you know, she's obviously working too. So when we get home, one of us makes dinner, one of us, plays with miss Olivia, and and then, we kind of swap as soon as dinner's ready. Yeah. So we both get to spend a little bit of time with the munchkin and then start all over again the next day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a it's a crazy schedule. I mean, coming from I I feel like I'm busy guy, but that makes me feel like I'm chilling all day. So, you know, you talked a little bit about, you know, obviously, you're training 4, 5, 6 hours a day. You're taking on coaching calls.
Speaker 1:You have sponsored calls. You have media requests like this. You know, you've got the actual commuting itself, family time. You've got a daughter now, which I wanna touch in on later. What is the most consistent thing that's getting sacrificed with all of that in your day?
Speaker 2:Quality sleep. I think, on really big training days, I've never been somebody that is, able to nap during the day and so, on big training days I I kind of struggle to ramp down at the end of the day. Easier days it's a little bit easier to sleep at night. You'd think it'd be opposite but, yeah. So even if I'm in bed, you know, at 9:30 or 10 o'clock, it it's still having really good quality sleep, I think, is the hardest thing.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, we're we're managing so far.
Speaker 1:Sponsor of today's episode is Precision Fuel and Hydration. These guys have been an awesome partner of mine for many years, and I really love the entire product line. They helped me tremendously when it came down to getting my fluid needs, sorted out, getting my electrolyte needs organized, and also just figuring out how many carbs per hour I needed. And they have an entire product line that has a lot of variety and different options for you. So my favorite option from them is the 30 chew.
Speaker 1:I sort of take them out of the wrapper and load them into my top tube storage compartment on my bike and just munch on those every 20 or 30 minutes when I'm out doing a hard training session or doing a race. They also have a bunch of sweat experts over there who can help you figure out exactly what your fluid carbohydrate, and electrolyte needs are. So head on over to pfandh.com. Redeem code big Mets 15. Once again, that's big Mets 15 via the link provided.
Speaker 1:Alright. So that's all incredibly interesting. I wanna tap a little bit into the training some training specific topics because you mentioned your background in exercise science. I'm an exercise physiology nerd, probably as you know, and the audience knows at this point. So what exactly, you may maybe touched on it already, what exactly is your formal educational background and your degrees?
Speaker 2:So my undergraduate degree was in athletic training. I thought that that was gonna be the full time path that I that I followed. And then I started my, master's in just overarching exercise science and then my doctorate is in adult and higher education. So I did my dissertation a little bit more on the public health side of things and you just, yeah, looked at what health promotion programs, universities offer their faculty and staff. And I've been toying a little bit with kind of using that side of that specifically for, some future endeavors a little bit as well.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:should I be referring to you as doctor right now?
Speaker 2:That's fine. Okay.
Speaker 1:How much of your formal education I mean, you just said you're tapping into it maybe for future projects over the course of maybe your 10 years as racing as a pro and the projects that you've gotten involved in now. How much of that formal education are you tapping back into?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's it's allowed me to do what I am doing right now. Right? Like, I use the education side of things obviously to influence the coaching side of things or influence how I interact with Julie, but also how I built my coaching programs and also how I sell myself to, you know, a specific sponsor set as well. Like I want to be able to not just, you know, point to a project or a product and say this is great. I wanna be able to explain why and why I would choose this product or for another one and, that might limit a little bit of who I like I've had companies that would want to work with me and maybe pay a little bit more than another one but I don't feel good about supporting the product, or the science supports another avenue better.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, it's helped me kind of hopefully gain some credibility on that front as well and and hopefully that's what's, gonna allow me to, stay in the sport when I'm not, racing at the level that I am right now. And, you know, the the education is something they can't take away from you, but I don't really wanna go back to the classroom at this point unless it was something like an adjunct class or something. Or I I don't wanna be full time there. I love the coaching side of things and and, you know, I think that's gonna be a big part of the future, after racing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So I typically don't do this as a new segment in the Endurance Matters podcast, but I came up with a little mid podcast game for you, Matt. It's called Factor Fad Endurance, exercise science edition. So I've got, I think, 7 things here. And I I guess the what I'm getting at is I want you to tell the people whether or not you think it's worth it or not worth it, or if it's factor fad.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Alright. Here we go. Number 1, ketones and intra workout ketone testing.
Speaker 2:Definitely worth it. The inter workout testing is is important there. You can't just do what somebody else did, and the source of the ketone matters. There's some ketones out there that don't move the needle at all, and there's others that will significantly. Obviously, I've partnered one with one that, I think, moves the needle significantly, and I've I've done the testing to prove it.
Speaker 1:Cool. And if you wanna hear any more information about these, Matt has a YouTube series called ask the professor where he, like goes through all of the actual details of why these products work or don't work or whatever. So you can go check that out on your own time. All right. Number 2 is metabolic and VO 2 max testing in a lab setting.
Speaker 2:Definitely an important thing to do if you're gonna use the data. I feel like so many people, go for the Instagram picture, and then they have no clue how to apply the data to themselves. So if you have the opportunity to go, yes, but make sure you have somebody that can help you use the actual data, and then that there's a plan for follow-up testing whether in the lab or in the field, to do after the fact.
Speaker 1:Okay. How about the Amias headband, the cooling headband that all the marathoners and a lot of the triathletes are wearing?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Again, it's something that, has a lot of merit to it. The I could talk about this one for quite a while because a lot of people just look at and go oh there that'll never work but, there's some level of evidence that it does actually low lower the body, temperature a little bit. But there's also a fair bit of evidence that just having a cooling strip on your forehead like that alters their perception because it gives feedback to the brain of feeling cooler. So you're allowing your your thermostat will turn down essentially, and your brain will allow yourself to push a little bit harder.
Speaker 1:Cool. How about intra workout lactate testing?
Speaker 2:Again, great if you know how to use the data. So many people see, some big name athletes doing it and just copy it and have no clue what they're doing, and they're not very good at taking the test. So, you know, you get a test that, you know, touches your skin and all of a sudden, oh, you have a 14 lactate. Oh my gosh. I'm this big badass, but that's really not the case.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure. For sure. I mean, that's so hot right now that it's it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's funny. Like, it's just been around forever. Yeah. And with all the technological advancements, that's what comes back. Right?
Speaker 2:You know? So it's it shows the importance of our jobs as influencers. Absolutely. Absolutely. They definitely influenced it.
Speaker 2:Totally. You got it as a couple people started posting pictures. Everybody's doing it. Right?
Speaker 1:Couldn't agree more. We could probably go on and on about that one. How about running with power?
Speaker 2:I'm not sold on running with power yet. I think it's all algorithm based, so it's not absolute power. And so, there's a lot of error associated with that. It's getting better. It will be there.
Speaker 2:It's not there just yet.
Speaker 1:Yep. I I feel like, ultimately, cycling and power meters got to a point where it was, like, like, sort of compulsory, and it'd be cool down the line to see running sort of make that transition. But I agree. We're not there yet. How about the CGMs?
Speaker 2:The
Speaker 1:glucose monitors for those that don't know.
Speaker 2:Again, another data point that can be very useful. A lot of people started using it when they saw other people doing it but, you know unfortunately for, SuperSapiens they couldn't get the clearance that they needed to to, make it a viable in a timely fashion. Again, data is great if you know how to use it, but data for data's sake is just noise.
Speaker 1:Yep. 100%. Last one here. What about the core sensor?
Speaker 2:Core sensor, I've been using that, again quite a bit in the build up to Kona. Again, it's something that you can use or you can track. Yeah. And you know obviously, I've been using it quite a bit for intersessions to know when I can take when I should take the sweatshirt off because I would get it to a certain level and then I'm like okay that's high enough all I need to do is maintain. Sure.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, definitely something that you can use. And, you know, I think if you have the ability to have multiple ones in different areas, that helps as well.
Speaker 1:Yep. So that's all my, fact or fad questions. It's very clear that your formal education and the fact that you're constantly tapping into the research and tapping into what's hot and what what's not lately, that's something that's on your mind all the time. How much are you able to just crack on with sessions that Julie gives you versus maybe, disagreeing or maybe trying to bring up a a point on physiological intent or, intensity distribution?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think Julie and I have worked together since 2016. And early on, we we talked a lot more than we do now about, how to kind of push your segment everything out. Now we kind of meet at the beginning of the month or beginning of the next block of training and say you know these are the goals This is, you know, how we think and that's kind of a group that group think. And then I just back off and say, okay.
Speaker 2:We know we're on the same page with what we want to get out of this next block. Go for it. And it's very rare that it I kind of second guess that what we're doing. And, you know, I think that that's how I want it. The reason I work with a coach right now is so I can be an athlete and and not be thinking about what I'm doing every day.
Speaker 2:Because then you're in a session sometimes and be like, well, maybe I should be doing this instead. You know? Like, my job as an athlete is to execute the session to the best of the ability and give feedback. And I feel like Julie and I have been working together well enough that we've earned that trust, that mutual trust, that I'm gonna give the feedback that I need to give and she's gonna, you know and I trust that she's gonna give me the sessions that I need to get to get me successful.
Speaker 1:Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Very, very interesting stuff, I guess. Like, another another follow-up question here is when you're having those month, monthly check ins, and you guys have an understanding around, okay, here's the the thing we're trying to stimulate or the goalpost we're trying to move.
Speaker 1:How much of it are you, maybe adding in a little bit of an extra layer of lactate testing, a little bit of an extra layer of core sensor testing, ketone testing, or is that all a prescription from Julie's side?
Speaker 2:Usually, it's it it's me kinda pushing the envelope. The lactate testing, she she was like, hey. I've got Jared. We're gonna partner, and and I wanna start implementing that a little bit more. I was already testing it in my basement already and so you know just her being able to test it at at live sessions that 2 days a week was was a great ad and and that was kind of driven by her.
Speaker 2:You know I think that she's works with a number of other talented athletes as well and so seeing some of the things that they're doing and and can, you know, if I haven't thought about it already, you know, she'll bring that up as well. The heat, like, heat prep for Kona this time around is very different for me because I've gone to Kansas with, Tio and Rinne the last couple years and and done our prep there. I'm doing it from Colorado this year and, you know, it's been pretty good weather for it. We've had some heat but we don't have the humidity and so we have to simulate that and so, you know a lot of the the kind of temperature levels and and the research of, you know, how long when I need to get in the sauna, how long I need to be in there and that that's kind of been driven by me but it's kind of always, like, here's the thought, and then she kind of massages it.
Speaker 1:Yep. Absolutely. I wanna circle back a little bit to the sports specific and the sports science stuff. What is the weirdest thing that you've tried in training that you won't be using?
Speaker 2:The weirdest thing I've tried in training?
Speaker 1:We can circle that.
Speaker 2:We might need to circle that. That's it. Alright. What Okay. I've I tried early on, I tried some, continuous lactate monitor.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you wore it on your cap. Sure. And I couldn't make heads or tails from the data. And it Oh,
Speaker 1:we I think we both had that sponsor as part of the Maverick multi sport thing, the ESX thing. Yeah. They Was
Speaker 2:that it? They came there the next year. Okay. So, yeah, I was a year ahead of you on beta testing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like, they they didn't come to light. Yeah. You know, they they just didn't make it.
Speaker 1:So It was algorithmic as well and, like, an infrared sort of like Yeah. Similar to the Garmin watch, like, heart rate monitor thing that's always wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it never never got to the accuracy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe someday we'll we'll we'll have one. There's a few that are kind of in beta testing mode right now that I've I've chatted with and, you know, who knows, if, I mean, it's an expensive project, to to do it correctly, and, yeah, it'll be interesting to see if it ever comes.
Speaker 1:Yep. For sure. What in general in the area of sports science has you excited for the future?
Speaker 2:I think we're seeing so many advancements in, in speed right now. Right? We're getting faster and faster and and relatively more so in triathlon than you see just in running or just in cycling and just in swimming. Obviously, all sports are getting faster but triathlon is really making big moves. And I think that's finally because we're treating athletes like triathletes rather than a swimmer, a biker, and runner.
Speaker 2:So in the past, we've done so much more training like, okay let's structure our runs like a marathoner is gonna do and let's structure our bikes like a pro cyclist is gonna do and so you know we're doing a huge aerobic block on the bike and also a huge aerobic block on the run and I've I've never been one that's jumped on that train but now we're seeing everybody doing or a lot of people are doing kind of their runs, the triathlons are doing their run their slow their easy runs much faster. And so, you know, I think we're learning that we can use a lot of those aerobic adaptations that we get on the bike and carry them over into the other two side of things. And so we're treating ourselves like triathlon, our triathletes, and that's just allowing us to train a lot smarter and it's gonna keep fueling the advancements that I think we're seeing.
Speaker 1:Yep. Do you think that those advancements are the the speed at which people are adapting to those advancements is something you're gonna see through the end of your career, or do you think the majority of those are gonna be seen in 2 years' time, 5 years' time, 10 years' time?
Speaker 2:I think I think we're I mean, we saw a huge jump in the last 4 years. And I I don't see that slowing down at all. You know, even if you, you know, are paying attention to anything else in the world, AI is a big buzzword. Right? And, you know, yeah, there's like AI programs.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm partnered with 1 right now and and those are gonna continue to get better but AI is also get you know, we're getting more and more data points and I AI is gonna help our coaches, scrub those data points and make sense of the data a little bit better and help us even, you know, even the ones that are writing the programs a 100% by themselves are gonna be able to, you know, not have to spend hours, you know, comparing all these data points and trying to make sense of it, it's gonna be done a lot faster. And so I think that'll keep on pushing the results forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A 100%. And I think especially when it comes to coaching, a majority piece of the coaching is just the relationship and the trust and the understanding of the athlete. And I think maybe sometimes when coaches are overwhelmed with just a simple program writing and the time it takes to get a a really well crafted plan and do all the analysis on the data, Maybe they don't have time for the relationship side, so maybe the future will allow for more relationship building. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Definitely. It's like I said, it's constantly changing. And, I I'm taking a little flack for being, you know, somebody coming from an exercise science background and and offering an addition, you know, AI coaching program with HumanGo. You know, obviously, most of what I'm doing is custom coaching, but I think right now it offers access.
Speaker 2:In the future it's going to, you know, get better and better. And so, you know, it's kind of skating to where the puck is going. And, you know, I've said a couple times that I don't think I'm gonna lose my job as a coach to AI, but I might lose my job as a coach to somebody who can use AI better than I can. Sure. So that yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about it right now and take some of the good and maybe discard some of the bad.
Speaker 1:Sure. I wanna dive a little bit more into that, and I think the industry in general and maybe sponsorship in general, your coaching business, interested to hear more about that stuff. So how much time and energy are you putting into growing and maintaining your coaching brand versus maybe building your own brand and paying attention to your sponsors like HumanGo and Zood and on and all of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's always a tough balance. Being out here helps a lot because I can get content a lot easier. You know, I've been working with Gerard for a couple years now. He doesn't live that far from me so he can just come and just record some or take some pictures or record some things in a normal training session without you know we just kind of stayed out of each other's way.
Speaker 2:He gets what he needs and disappears and then all of a sudden you know a couple days later I have some pictures that I can use on social media. And so, getting the content to use is obviously kind of the hardest part and, you know so that is you know on the on the profile side of things that helps having somebody to bounce ideas off of and and how to build a personal brand helps. On the coaching side of things, I've been fairly fortunate that they've kind of played off each other. It's right now the the best way of getting the coaching name out there is me winning races. And so as long as there'll be a transition at some point where I probably I'm not winning races anymore or being at the front or being talked about and then I'll have to figure that part out.
Speaker 2:But, you know, hopefully if I build up the personal profile I can push that on to, continue on with the coaching. And that's why I've worked fairly hard to try to, you know, do, like, the ask the professor things and and to build that educated side of things to, you know, that's gotta be what makes me different as a coach after the fact.
Speaker 1:Sure. When you're talking to brands, how much are they valuing you simply winning triathlons and being, you know, number 1 ranked in the Ironman series versus pumping out as the professor videos or pumping out social media posts?
Speaker 2:Most brands care more about social media than they do about winning races. Not all of them but that's that's kind of the the situation that we're in right now. You know obviously the more races you win the more followers you have and and so that's you know when you get a podium bonus you're essentially getting a bonus for the additional followers that that they all of a sudden have access to. That's kind of how I view it. It's a lot more fun to work with the ones that only care about winning races sometimes but at the end of the day they have to get a return and they see returns off of you know they can measure the returns directly off of social media.
Speaker 2:They can't measure the returns off of you holding a banner and so you know I think their boss you know when you're talking with a brand manager their bosses can you know, be appeased better when they can show hard numbers that this is the return that you're getting.
Speaker 1:Yep. There are some athletes out there who have very similar caliber to you who are winning Ironmans and, you know, top in the pro series and very consistent for a number of years who pretty much just say, hey. Look. All I do is win triathlons. I don't wanna do any of the media stuff.
Speaker 1:There are similarly athletes who maybe don't have the pedigree of results who are saying, hey. I'm an influencer. This is how I'm gonna get my bag. I'm gonna focus on that and let the results kinda come and go as they may. It seems as though you're sort of doing a little bit of everything simultaneously coming from a world in which you had that sort of stable income.
Speaker 1:How much did you put attention into just meeting a standard of income regardless of however you got there?
Speaker 2:That yeah. Good question. You know, especially, like I said, I struggled a little bit in 2016. And so building up a a profile was really important to me just to kind of take some of that stress away. Like, you know, I'm pretty confident right now that if I got hurt that, you know, I'd be able to come back and race again next year.
Speaker 2:Where in 2016, if I got hurt, I might have been in in a pretty tough place. Like, I, you know, couldn't just beg for my job back, you know. So, that definitely fueled things earlier on, which I think was probably not a bad thing because it's kinda set things up the way they are now. And, you know, I think I have a pretty good balance between the the sponsorship, the coaching, and, you know, it's almost like a a portfolio. I've got income from racing, income from sponsorships, and then hopefully future, you know, income now and then the future with the coaching side of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. If you're giving advice to a new athlete coming up who has maybe similar potential to what you saw in yourself, nowadays, there's so much more opportunity within triathlon. You've got the Ironman series with a $2,000,000 purse. You've got the PTO giving out, you know, 6 figure contracts here and there.
Speaker 1:Would you tell these athletes to do what you did, grow a coaching company, grow a media company, or would you just say, hey. Look. Go for gold. Go for number 1 in the PTO or number 1 in the Ironman series and get yourself $200 and then move on to the next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, it it's really tough to do it that way, because that costs a lot of money to support yourself you know with the memberships, with the bodywork, with you know all like putting yourself in a position to stay healthy for a year long race program to have the durability to you know and and just to be able to travel to the races because, you know, there's races that you're gonna pay to work, right? You travel there, the race didn't go perfectly, you know, you go to Europe, you come back and that's all out of your pocket. And so, unless you have, you know, you know, if unless you're okay with that, which I never really was, or have the, you know, the backing of somebody, that going for gold right off the bat is is a tough thing. I can respect people that are able to do that.
Speaker 2:That would not have been I wouldn't have raced well personally doing that way because it would have added a lot of financial stress and I didn't really want to deal with that and so I found a way to, you know, deal with it the best way that I could and that was by kind of making the coaching business and and kind of finding my fit there. When I'm working with you know I've coached a few young pros and you know I kind of you know, you you have to get rid of as many stresses as you can. So finances are gonna be one of those. We've got to find a way that you can deal with that. And and that's the conversation.
Speaker 2:And whether it's, you know, coaching or whether it's a part time job or or whatever that allows you to do this and chase this dream, you know, that's that's okay. You know, it just just because you're you have another source of income doesn't mean that you're not fully dedicated to your goal. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. And I've often found I've sort of gone through the waves and I I've been a pro 11 years, so I've sort of had those years where I'm just gonna commit a 100% to racing. All my time's gonna be focused on training and paying attention to the sponsors. And often my best years were the years where I was a little bit more diverse, coaching athletes or working on media projects or whatever. So I really do think that having something in addition to purely just going out there and having the pressure to deliver on race day can supplement a portfolio, you know, like you've mentioned.
Speaker 1:Let's talk a little bit about this year in particular. You're currently sitting number 1 in the Ironman Pro series. At the end of the year, if you're able to hold that position, you get 200 grand, which I obviously don't know the backing of your deals and coaching, and sponsorships,
Speaker 2:but that's probably gonna
Speaker 1:be up there in terms of, if it wouldn't suck. Yeah. 1 one day paydays or end of your paydays. With a year
Speaker 2:like this and maybe looking
Speaker 1:at next year or the following year as opportunities to do the same thing again, how much are you just like, I don't wanna deal with it. I have the coaching business that I wanna continue to carry for the future. All the sponsors who are maybe looking at contract renewals or the attention that you're trying to provide them for a relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things when you're comparing it to $200,000, how much better are you just saying? I'm focusing on trying to get this 200 k.
Speaker 2:You know, I really haven't changed my approach at all. I feel like I've kind of found the the recipe that helps me be as successful as I can be. And so I've focused on, you know, I've maybe, been willing to spend a little bit more to on on, like, bodywork and stuff like that to to try to keep me healthy because I'm basically adding another Ironman in. But I I've really just focused on, you know, letting the results take care of themselves. If I focus on the process and go into the races and execute to the best of my ability, if I finish first, awesome.
Speaker 2:If I finish 5th, not as awesome, but still not bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you know that's that's the focus whether it's, you know, one race or the entirety of the season, it's a long year and if you're off, you know, I talk a little I've talked a few times lately about like make sure making sure your battery or your mental battery is recharged and I think as you're so laser focused on one event, it's very easy to kind of step over the edge and just like you would if you over train, you know, where all of a sudden an injury keeps in. Well if you don't, you know, like mentally taper or mentally kind of let yourself recover, then it can be easy to kind of go over that edge and just not be able to push yourself as deep as you physically should be able to. And so, you know, I've I've tried to keep the focus relatively the same.
Speaker 1:Yep. That's good. It sounds like you've obviously done a great job setting yourself up to the point where you're not relying on this $200. I think there are probably athletes who are sitting in the top ten who are like, I need to do whatever it takes, push myself mentally, physically to get myself in that top 10, to get that year end bonus. I don't wanna put the cart before the horse, but if you were fortunate enough to be able to get that 200 k, what are you gonna do with it?
Speaker 2:College is expensive. I got living now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. That definitely answers the question.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, yeah, I I don't know that I would, you know, I I've never been somebody to spend money before it before it comes. So, yeah. I I don't know how to answer that. I I guess yeah.
Speaker 2:No. I I've had yeah. I I I have nothing.
Speaker 1:I do remember after Daytona, you bought yourself an espresso machine or something. Right?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I did. It was it was something that I wanted for a long time. And and, yeah, that that $70 payday was like, okay. I can I can put a little bit out
Speaker 1:and put $700 into the espresso machine? Yeah. And that's like a I don't know. Mine was like a cost per use. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Like, a cost per use on that, you get 3 coffees a day. That's looking at, like, 10¢ of coffee. So it's really not that bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. We can justify anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. I wanna transition a little bit into some questions about your mindset and your approach. You've overcome some injuries in your career. What has been the hardest injury for you to overcome?
Speaker 2:I was in Kansas, prepping for the world champs and went out or the day before I left to Kansas. I did a a 22 plus mile run. Went awesome. Woke up the next morning, couldn't walk, and ended up, you know, just feeling like, something was off in the back. It would be fine.
Speaker 2:So went down to Kansas and turns out that I had a sacral stress fracture. Not a fun injury to deal with. It's still something that like daily mobility has to be a part of my everyday routine. Otherwise, I still get symptoms from that. Not that the bone isn't healed but it just kind of irritates the nerves around there and firing patterns and everything and so that's been an injury that you know obviously it cost me an ability to compete at the World Championships but it's also been one that I have to, you know, constantly get, you know, stay on top of otherwise, symptoms come back.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How do you know obviously, a sacral stress fracture is probably gonna be pretty easy to diagnose because the pain is probably gonna be pretty bad. But for a lot of athletes out there and myself included, there are these injuries that are kind of in the gray area where you can keep going and maybe you're doing a little bit more damage, but also maybe you're not. And if you manage it, it's gonna be okay. How do you know when an injury is gonna be too bad?
Speaker 2:It it that's the hardest thing that we have to do. Right? Like, we always try to convince ourselves that we're fine especially for races coming up. I think that having somebody in your corner that you can be honest with and talk to. Like I see my PT once a week and, you know, I'll tell him everything that's hurting and he probably thinks I'm a hypochondriac sometimes.
Speaker 2:But, like, we just have the conversation and and I, you know, I have a circle of trust and, you know, of people that I I need in my corner and, you know, I take their advice very, you know, I'm not gonna disregard it and I think having that person that can be like, yeah that's that might be a little bit more than just, you know, take some Aleve and put some ice on it or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. It's a it's a fine balance because if you keep kinda treading that line of, like, yeah, pushing it a little bit too much, you can get into trouble pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I mean, we try to we we try to make the best decisions that doesn't mean we're always gonna get it right. Right? We've you know that's the definition of an overuse injury right is is kind of getting getting that decision wrong but, yeah it being a repetitive and overused or, over distance sport, you know, those things are gonna happen and you just gotta try to do the best you can to avoid them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And this is me maybe making excuses for all of us as professionals, but I do feel like there is an added element of pressure when so much of our livelihood is tied into it. So much of our self worth is tied into the performances. You've invested, you know, 30 hours a week for a year going into a big race sometimes. And if you have an injury going in, you're just like, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna bore John and deal with it later. Yeah. Is it hard to if you ultimately make that decision to bore John, are you okay with paying the consequences, or is it still equally difficult?
Speaker 2:I I mean, anytime you go into a race and don't get the don't get the result that you want, it's frustrating. Right? Like, you know, you said you're investing, what, 30 hours a week of training plus all the other things. I mean, we have really 5 opportunities a year to make money and that's not to make money for this year. It's to make money for the next couple years because, you know, like partnership deals go on, year, you know, couple year swings and and so, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're probably making them more aggressive or or risk, yeah risky decision a lot of times. Yeah. But, you know, hopefully more times than not they pay off but they don't always. And you have to you have to be willing to go into a race knowing that there if there is risk, you have to be willing to accept the consequences and have the mental, capacity to be like, yeah. I I knew that going in it might go this way and it did.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:For sure. The tough ones are when you, like, you're kind of fit enough to be able to still pull off the performance, but then you really gotta pay the piper after the race. So been there, and I'm sure you have too. I guess another question that I have is, I'm I'm curious to hear a little bit about who on the race course, whether it's a peer or someone who came before you, has influenced you the most in your career.
Speaker 2:I I'll I'll cheat and go with 2. 1, I'm sure, you know, I talked a little bit about the first race at Coeur d'Alene. Crowley won that day and he was sitting at the recovery table afterwards that I happened to be sitting at. I knew nothing about the sport at that time. I just knew that that guy won, and you know he kind of was just chatting with me and and said something to the effect of, you know, like how how'd the race go for you?
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, it was my first time and then he I said I went, you know, 850 or whatever 9:50. And he's like, oh good. Well well, what'd you run? I said, ah, 3 flat. It's like oh you could really do something in that sport and that really you know it I'm like okay cool and then when we went to Kona and then I saw he won that too I'm like okay so somebody who's a world champion like said that you know maybe that maybe it's true and then, you know, so that that would be like a one off event.
Speaker 2:That was probably the only interaction I had had with him on the racecourse. And then afterward, like, training with with, Theo was very rewarding. Definitely miss having that guy there a number you know, and these, especially this build up to Kona. I've I've noticed that he he hasn't you know I've noticed that absence and just his approach like obviously he's an amazing athlete but I feel like he did one of the best jobs that I've ever seen. And Rene was the same of, like, okay.
Speaker 2:You're like, yeah. We're just getting the work done early in the season and then we would get 4 weeks to Kona and it feel like it was a different level. And I feel like I was always really good at, you know, being so gung ho and peaking in April. Yeah. And then just being, like, fizzling out the rest of the year.
Speaker 2:And he would peak when it mattered. Yeah. And so, you know, I learned a lot just from watching him in the buildups.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, the listeners know I always speak very fondly of t on the podcast and I had him on here as a guest and we talked a lot about our time training together. And he's just a dude who can't be replaced and I miss him often. I was riding with a couple guys this week and I was like, oh
Speaker 2:man, I
Speaker 1:used to do this ride with Tim. We'd go here and he'd put the hammer down here and then I'd drag him home here. So, yeah, that's a a massively influential person in my career as well. So, he's still alive, but we miss him. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Anyways, who would be a big influence off the course, like, on the sidelines?
Speaker 2:My dad has always been, like, the guy that from a young age. Like, when I was growing up, he would, you know, go or come back from work and go out on a run and he would take me on the warm up with him, drop me off. I'm sure it slowed him down. He had limited time anyways. And then, you know, by 4th or 5th grade, we were doing the whole run together.
Speaker 2:And then on 6th or 7th grade, I would drop him off after my warm up and then go up. But, I always wanted to be like my dad. He showed me what, hard work really is. He showed me how to, you know, commit to family. And yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, he's definitely the guy that that fills that role.
Speaker 1:That's cool. And you're a father now? I am. So that's a a big a big point of discussion here. You welcome a new member to the family, Olivia.
Speaker 1:How did that change your life this year?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was it it's been wild. She's 7 months old in a couple days now, I guess. You know, the first the first bit when she was here, I didn't like, from a time perspective, I didn't really notice a whole lot because Ashley was at home on maternity leave. And so she was taking care like, I was working and training just as much and so, like, when I did the build up into, Ironman Texas, I didn't notice much different.
Speaker 2:And then Ash went back to work and when I was doing the build into Lake Placid, I was like, wow this is way different because I can't just dump everything on on Ash. I mean she still does a large majority of it. Don't you know I'm not gonna pretend that that that's not the case but, you know, we're trying to help out as much as I can and you know it definitely was noticeable after she went back to work and so from, from just like the time and the sleep perspective, you know, that's been noticeable but Pam, it's a lot of like, you can have a terrible workout and, you know, she giggles once for you and you forgot about it. Right? Like it it it yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a lot more fun to go home and and it's really a lot harder to be away, which is why I did the Kona build here. Sure. Yeah. Traveling less than half as many nights as I was on the road last year. Sure.
Speaker 1:She may be too young. But have you tapped into that dad's strength at all on the race course or in a training session yet?
Speaker 2:I'm I I don't really know. Like, it's I I I don't feel anything different, but there, you know, there'll be certain times, like, where it hits, like, I've I've gotta put her through college or, you know, so it's, you know, when I'm having the, oh, can I keep on doing this? Like, oh, yeah. I I I
Speaker 1:can find a way. Yep. 100%. And now with her in your life, what is your biggest goal in terms of being a dad?
Speaker 2:I want to be the example for her that my dad was for me. I feel like I was given the gift of of a great example in that front. You know, taught me how to set goals, how to work hard, and just and he most of it wasn't intent like, it was just him doing the right thing. Yeah. And, you know, if I can share half of those on, I'll I'll feel like I I did a good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's very cool. Alright. Couple, questions on goals for the future here before we get into the, rapid fire to rep the podcast. I have a couple more questions for you because I'm I'm interested.
Speaker 1:What's the plan for next season? And at 39 years old, your triathlon age is still pretty young, but your age age is maybe getting up there a little bit. And, how much longer do you foresee yourself continuing on the path that you're going on?
Speaker 2:At the beginning of this year, I would have probably had a different answer. You know, I didn't have a good year last year and wasn't really in love with the sport like like I had been in the past. And then all of a sudden things just started clicking. So maybe that was the addition of Olivia to our family or, you know, whatever. But I started having a lot more fun again and so, you know, I definitely have a few more years.
Speaker 2:I think I have a few few more good races left in me. And, you know, I I don't plan on, pulling the pin anytime soon. Next year, I'll be pushing the Ironman series again. And, you know, early on, I I don't know. A lot of it kinda depends on how this year wraps up, whether I start the season in, March or start it in April or May, with with racing.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, we'll we'll figure that out after world champs. Sure.
Speaker 1:What do you think is gonna be the deciding factor for your the end of your career? Is it gonna be your mind or your body?
Speaker 2:Every you know, it's it's cliche, but, you know, everybody wants to be say they they walked away on their own terms and and kinda weren't forced out. I don't plan on racing when I don't feel like I'm competitive. And so, you know, whether I I I'm stubborn enough to to think that that's not gonna be a mind decision. It's gonna be where I just physically can't can't keep up or can't handle the training load that I need to on a regular basis. You know, right now I'm happy with how training's going.
Speaker 2:I'm seeing good numbers, day in and day out and, you know, don't always see that in the racing but I'm I'm still able to, put together a few races here and there. So, yeah I'm not I'm not really thinking about an endgame just yet in terms of like a hard hard date but you know it'd be it'd be silly to you know we've talked kind of about building that portfolio it'd be silly to not have something in mind for, you know, to slowly transition to, you know, I I don't know that I have to be like, yeah, I'm out. I'm done. You know? It could be like, you know, maybe next year I'll race you know I think what what Seve did was pretty awesome like hey I'm gonna go on this year and just race all the races that I wanted to do throughout my career it just didn't make sense or whatever and then you just go and you know maybe be able to bring Ash and Olivia for a couple of them when you know in a couple years maybe she's, old enough to enjoy being at a different place now.
Speaker 2:I don't think she'll know, but, sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And as planners, sometimes that is good because I think, I don't know, as professional athletes, you just wanna keep the dream alive and you can almost do anything that it takes to keep it going. But someone like Savvy is a great example because he kinda felt his he probably felt his performance not being able to deliver at the same level, and he just set that end date for himself. And he said, I've got 18 months. I'm gonna soak it up.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna absorb it because I think you can probably fizzle out slowly. Whereas if you have this decision in your mind of, okay, I've got 18 months to maximize the journey and the experiences, it can probably be helpful in the process. So Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, I mean and then it kinda gives you a firm transition with Sure. Your partners and, you know, with your family and all those things as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Well, we gotta get Matt on the road back so he can maybe try and beat some of this traffic. But before we go, 6 rapid fire questions for you today. Alright. Number 1.
Speaker 1:Would you rather have all of your runs on trail or all of your rides indoors? All my rides indoors.
Speaker 2:Who runs on a trail?
Speaker 1:Matt's not a trail guy. He's a pavement guy. Absolutely not. Big pavement guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You knew the answer to that one.
Speaker 1:I did. No.
Speaker 2:I knew
Speaker 1:that one. Yeah. I knew that. I've run with Matt enough times on, you know, a nice wide triple track trail, and he's uncomfortable enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What is
Speaker 2:a is as trail as this guy gets?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. What's your favorite JDC workout of all time? 2020, 20 build. That's classic.
Speaker 1:Yep. Yeah. Can't go wrong. It's 20 minutes. Medium 20 minutes, moderate 20 minutes, mad.
Speaker 1:Yep. That's it. 5 minute warm down. Yep.
Speaker 2:If you don't feel like you absolutely wanna puke at the end of it, you didn't do it right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And for context, you probably get 11 and a half miles in the hour.
Speaker 2:The the goal for that session is 6535. So 6 minute miles, 5:30 minute miles, and then Yeah. 5.
Speaker 1:I've got my own standard for that workout when I was training with Julie a lot, and it's not as fast. Anyways, what is your most memorable win or performance of your career? It doesn't have to be a win.
Speaker 2:I think Daytona, the 2nd place at Daytona was was one that I'll never forget. There's a lot going on obviously with COVID and and we made the move out here and we kind of we sold our house back in Iowa the day before that bike. I closed signed the closing documents in the hotel the day before the race and so there's a lot like a huge relief on, like, oh, hey. I just go out and have fun. And I did.
Speaker 2:And, you know, that kind of, you know, a lot of the coaching side of things fell apart a little bit. So Sure. During COVID. And so that kind of brought things back on that front as well. Sorry.
Speaker 2:That wasn't a rapid fire answer.
Speaker 1:No. It's fine. It's they don't have to be super rapid fire. I remember that, time very, specifically because we were training together quite a lot. And I remember there was a session we did because we all had the same bike coach at the time, Matt Botrell, and he prescribed a workout that we all did the same thing.
Speaker 1:And you were just so far ahead of tip, Tim and I, and we were team time trialing to try and get back to you, and we just could not do it. So I was like, Tim and I looked at each other like, oh, man. Matt's on. This is a week out from Daytona. I remember that 2020.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, that was good. I I think I know the answer to this one too. What, but what is your mid, go to mid long ride gas station stop snack?
Speaker 2:Fast break.
Speaker 1:Oh, fast break. I wasn't gonna guess that.
Speaker 2:Fast break.
Speaker 1:I thought you were a Coke and Snickers guy, the the tall can. No.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Tall can of Coke and and a fast break.
Speaker 1:Oh, fast break. Is that a new thing?
Speaker 2:No. Peanuts, not so much peanut butter.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm with you. I'm with you.
Speaker 1:Oh, the fast break does hit. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2:I The peanut butter Snickers, though, if if there's not a fast break, I'll go for the peanut butter Snickers, king-size.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, this this is showing that Matt and I haven't ridden together.
Speaker 2:It's been too long?
Speaker 1:Too long. We're gonna we're gonna change that soon. Alright. Would you rather is it work before training or training before work?
Speaker 2:Well, training is, yeah.
Speaker 1:Delineating work Yeah. Computer work versus training work.
Speaker 2:So I wake up, turn the coffee machine on, emails, training peaks while I have a coffee, then go train.
Speaker 1:Yep. Good one. Alright. Last one. What is your daily limit on number of espresso shots or milligrams of caffeine?
Speaker 2:Hard stop at 2 o'clock. No caffeine after 2. Yep. That's nonnegotiable, except on a race day. And 4 espresso shots is the hard stop.
Speaker 1:That's pretty honest. That's getting after it, but I respect it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's no more than that.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, that's all I've got. Thank you so much for coming on the episode today, Matt. Had a lot of fun with this one. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Alright. Cheers. We'll see you in the next episode. Peace.
