Jelle Geens: Ironman 70.3 World Champion and Olympian
Alright. What's going on, everybody? We are back after a little Endurance Matters podcast hiatus. Today, joining us remotely from Andorra, we have Yellagine's awesome interview. He is preparing in Andorra right now for his 70.3 world title defense and also the t one hundred grand finale in Doha.
Justin Metzler:So enjoy this conversation with Yellagine's. Welcome to another episode of the Endurance Matters podcast. I'm your host, Justin Metzler. And today, remote from Andorra, I have Jellagines. Jellah, welcome to the podcast.
Jelle Geens:Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for inviting me, and, yeah, happy to be on.
Justin Metzler:Awesome. Well, I'll start off the podcast with a icebreaker, a hard hitting question here. Would you rather do an all out sprint triathlon every weekend of the year or one Ironman every month of the year?
Jelle Geens:It's hard to say. I've never done an Ironman, but I'm over sprint distance racing, so I'll say an Ironman every month.
Justin Metzler:Okay. That might be a little bit little bit of foreshadowing for some of the questions that I have for you Yeah. Later in the podcast. But, definitely yeah, wanna rewind a little bit. Why don't you start off by telling me a little bit about what your upbringing was like in Belgium and how you first got introduced to the sport?
Jelle Geens:As almost every Belgian, I start playing soccer. Yeah. And I my dad was doing triathlon, but, like, I don't even remember it. So it was like he stopped. I think I was maybe, like, five, six years old.
Jelle Geens:But I knew what triathlon was, but like went from like soccer into athletics when I was eight. Did athletics for a long time, actually like did like all the cross country races and like was on a decent national level. Just my problem was I was quite small compared to all the other kids I had to compete with. But I did do some like podiums at like Belgium championships at one point. But then I kinda got over it when I was like 14, 15 year old.
Jelle Geens:And yeah we actually were on holidays in like North Of Spain with my parents and obviously because my dad did triathlon, I knew about triathlon and like randomly said on the holiday like I think I want try and do triathlon and like start swimming a bit in that pool. I swam when I was really young, think until the age of like six, but never made it like in Belgium you start with breaststroke and I never made it further than breaststroke. So then that was a challenge when I was 15 years old to try and learn how to swim freestyle. But yeah, that's how it actually evolved a bit. Then that season I just still did athletics and then the next season I did like one or two triathlon and like became more and more and like less and less athletic races until like I think in 2011 when I was 18 years old was my last race on the track.
Jelle Geens:3,000 meter I still remember. And from then on I was fully into triathlon.
Justin Metzler:Cool. How much was triathlon in the media in Belgium? I guess because during that time you had people like Freda Van Lerde who was winning Kona. Were you paying attention to those things that were happening within triathlon?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, I think what I remember first was Athens Olympics two thousand and four where Kathleen Smith finished, who was Belgium finished fourth in like a big battle, she was fighting for the podium. So that's the first thing I remember about watching triathlon and then obviously when Freddie won his title in Hawaii, I was already in the sport and I was more looking into it. But in Belgium it's like Ironman is the one that matters and that comes into the media. Like I barely heard probably of like short course racing or Olympic racing. Like obviously we had Luke Van Leerden winning I think in '96 and '97 in Hawaii.
Jelle Geens:So he was quite popular, but it's I was too young for that. So I don't really remember that. Well, I was three years old, so I definitely don't remember it. But yeah, you could see like whenever Hawaii was on, like it would come in Belgium media or whenever a Belgian athlete won Hawaii, they would become national. How do you say this?
Jelle Geens:National Sportsperson of the Year. Yeah. You're guaranteed if you win Hawaii, you become National Sportsperson in Belgium. So I knew a bit about travel and then obviously because my dad did it, paid a bit more attention to it. But it's not that it's like one of the bigger sports in Belgium.
Jelle Geens:I'd say it's quite small and it doesn't come so much in the media.
Justin Metzler:Sure. And so with all the Belgians winning in Kona, were there people in the Olympic sphere who were trying to maybe pay attention to triathlon more and was the federation getting more interested in funding triathletes and developing triathletes? And how did you get involved in sort of the Belgian national team side?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, So I started, like, doing proper triathlon in 2009. It was just like local races. I had no involvement with Belgium Federation. I actually had also no idea how it was working. I do know, like, back then we had like a top sports school for triathlon, which was basically like people all living together going to school, but had the chance to train quite a lot during school hours.
Jelle Geens:And at one point I remember I got an invite for this place where I decided I would just want to stick to my high school that I was doing and finish it there. But then in 2011, I second at Junior European Champs. And from then on, I actually like slowly rolled into the National Federation. And yeah, Belgium is a special country with this, like, I don't know if you know, but we have like the Flemish part and the Wallonian part. And we have two different, like everything is doubled, but we also have two different Troutman federations.
Jelle Geens:So because I come from Flanders, I was in contact with the Flemish Troutman Federation. And it basically works like you have to do this criteria and then you get like a certain level of funding. Because I came second at Europeans, I straightaway went into the highest category of funding. From then on, that was also the year that I finished my high school and had to decide what to do after. And like the 23 coach at the time was coaching in Lueva, which is like a popular university place.
Jelle Geens:So I decided to go to university there and get coached by this coach. This was like September 2011 when I started university there and started training with him. Yeah, from then on, have like, yeah, get more involvement with the Federation and they're really keen because they really haven't had many triathletes that could podium at Europeans as juniors. Like we had Peter Cruz a couple years before and he was at that point still like the big elite guy. But he couldn't really fulfill, like he was really good as a junior, but couldn't really fulfill it due to a lot of injuries.
Jelle Geens:So they were quite keen to have someone else that was good at juniors and like, I know, like from then on, like, got quite good funding, I had camps paid, I had races paid for. So once I was in that like federation system, it actually was quite good for me.
Justin Metzler:Cool. I'm curious to hear because obviously Belgium, you mentioned is a a country where football is really popular, but cycling is obviously a massive sport in Belgium with Belgium with the the classics and obviously so many very successful Belgian cyclists. How many of those people were you influenced by and how many of those people did you get any opportunities to train with some of the cyclists? Do you guys brush shoulders or is it totally two separate worlds?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, I grew up loving cycling and I actually still love it. It is like you said very big in Belgium. I'd say mainly Flanders. So, I remember like every classics race, I would sit, yeah, from 10AM in front of the TV watching until until it was done and I really looked up to those guys like back in the days like Tom Baugh and Philippe Gilbert like I I really loved it. I actually did cycling for for two years as well when I was like 12, 13, 14 years old.
Jelle Geens:Yeah, it was quite big there. Like you had these big youth teams, which I joined one of them. Been in the antecedent triathlon and I know a few of the cyclists like I know Victor Campanas because he used to be a triathlete actually. And I've trained with like some of them, but not that much mainly also because I moved out of Belgium basically in 2016 and and didn't spend much time there anymore. So not much.
Jelle Geens:Like, the most is, like, meeting them at the Olympics and stuff like this.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Alright. Well, can you fast forward a little bit? So you spoke about going to university to train with the group and the coach there. I guess from there, can you just catch me up to the point in which you left Belgium?
Justin Metzler:And I'm assuming your next move was to go to Girona. Correct?
Jelle Geens:No. So first, so I did the Rio Olympics in 2016, still with that coach from from the National Federation in Lueva. But from then on, I decided I need a step up and I joined Joel Filial Squad. And back at the back in the day, we we weren't based in Geronea, but we would like travel from training camp to training camp and a bit depending on where the races were. So our year, we usually would start like mid December, we would do a two week camp in Fretteventura, would go home for the holidays, then would go back to Las Palitas in Fretteventura for another two months.
Jelle Geens:And then back then we had Abu Dhabi always March, the first WTCS race. After that, we would go to Mallorca Camp. Yeah, then we would go other race and then summer we would spend most of it in Fort Romero on altitude. So back then we traveled a lot to a lot of different places and I felt like, yeah, really living out of a suitcase. And then actually, it was only when COVID hit like 2020 that we decided we, it might be nice to stick more to one place, one spot.
Jelle Geens:And it was actually Vincent Luis who just the year before bought a house in Girona who said like, let's come and train here for the Valencia World Cup, which was happening at the 2020. And Martha Van Riehl and me rent an Airbnb, actually together with Bart Arnaud, Katie and Tommy Zafiras. It was it was a really great time. And we didn't leave anymore state for four more years.
Justin Metzler:Amazing. I wanna definitely talk more about your experience under Joel and sort of that training camp environment, that group squad environment. So I guess generally, like, can you just talk to us first and foremost before you shifted to being in Dorona? What it's like being in this rotating training camp lifestyle where you don't have a home base, you're constantly sort of on and focused without anywhere to really call home. What was that like?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, I liked it because at that point I was like, I was 23, 24 years old, so I didn't have any commitments. Had like, you know, I didn't have a girlfriend at the time and so it was quite easy for me and I really enjoyed it, like spending time basically with friends all the time. So I enjoyed it like we like obviously, like spending too much in Las Platas, like at the end you get a bit bored of the food they offer there. You get a bit bored of all the wind and the roads and the same the same run loops. Yeah, it basically was just a bunch of friends training together and and and like we all had our own rooms.
Jelle Geens:We all had different hotel rooms. Would I would very often share with Mathe because we were both Belgians. But we do most trainings together, we would have dinner together. We would occasionally go out for dinner or like do something fun as well. So for me, looking back at it, it was a great time.
Jelle Geens:You, yeah, you are, like you say, like very committed and focused on the sport and and and always like in like the ideal environment for like to be the best day in day out and like like, yeah, really train like train rest and eat but it was also just a lot of fun because you did it with a bunch of like great people and yeah we really had a group really had a great group at the time and yeah it was a lot of fun like obviously when I got a bit older like I got a bit over, like all the traveling, just being away from home a lot, with, yeah, one point I had a partner, so it started to get a bit harder as well-to-do this camp lifestyle. So I think at one point, we were all a bit ready to more settle at one place and like have something where we could call home, I guess.
Justin Metzler:Sure. In that sort of environment, I think, because I've been part of a lot of training groups here in Boulder, I think it takes a really special group of people to lift each other up and sort of proceed each other as teammates without it getting too competitive. At points during your experience there, did you struggle with that at all, sort of towing up against guys in training sessions and feeling like you had to beat them in a day to day workout or observing others doing that?
Jelle Geens:I think like the first couple months I was with the group, it basically was at that point, it was Mario, Molla, Mark and me. And I guess because Mark and me we grew up like competing against each other in Belgium and I feel like we carried that a bit too much in those first months in training camp. Obviously, Mario Mola was at that point, like, quite significantly better than us. And we ended up both having a stress fracture and only Mario was the one that survived. So I think definitely at that point, we we pushed a bit too much on training, try to raise training maybe a bit bit too much than than we should have done at the time.
Jelle Geens:But I think we we both learned from that and the group got a bit bigger as well at that point. Like it's it often is like after Olympics, like people would stop. So the group was a bit smaller at the time, but then actually like more and more people came and I feel like Joel was really good, like only getting people in, I guess, that he could trust that they could stick to the pace and not just race in training all the time because yeah. I've heard this a lot actually, like, people wondering, like, how he did it, like, just because, yeah, you compete against all your training partners. Like at one point, we were one first, second, third, and fourth in a WTS.
Jelle Geens:So like, yeah, your main competitors were also your teammates and your training partners. But I don't know. For some reason, we we just did it and there was no egos in training. Obviously, at some point, someone felt a bit better than the other and would push a bit more than the other. But, yeah, it was also fine to just get dropped and you move on and you go to the next training.
Jelle Geens:Yeah, I think is really good at creating this environment where you just do the training. We often got like speed limits, you don't go faster than this space on the run. So yeah, in the like we managed to do it and I feel like every time someone really good would come to the group like Jake Bertwhistlejourn or Vincent Luis, who they all like won WTCS race, race on the highest level, but they came in the group and they seem to be fine doing, yeah, like the basis we were doing and not racing. And I don't know, feel like because we're also we're all just friends. It was quite easy to accept when when when someone had a better day.
Jelle Geens:Also just, I think at one point, we all realized like, we help, we lift each other up, we help each other as well, we help each other getting better off race day. And by destroying each other on training, actually make ourselves worse. So I think we're all smart enough to realize that.
Justin Metzler:Sure. I'm curious to hear more about your perspective of Joel and his reputation because he obviously has been very popular. He's produced great champions. What do you think made him such a good coach? And what were some of the things that, yeah, I guess made you successful and other successful in that environment from a training perspective or a culture perspective?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, I really love training under Joel. Like I was with him for eight years, Very, very good eight years. Like I think I achieved more than I ever dreamed of under him. I think I really evolved to a different level under him. And I think, yeah, like obviously he gets really talented.
Jelle Geens:Like if you're a top coach, like top athletes will come to you and that helps a lot. But he did seem to be able to even if top athletes would come to make them still a little bit better. What I think Joel is really good at is like, he's really observant during training and at the time like he was with us almost 20 fourseven. He would came to most of our camps. He would be there on most of our trainings and he could really charge and also the questions he would ask during before after training could really see what like state you're in a bit mentally and physically, I'd say, adapt training towards it.
Jelle Geens:Like, it was like a very the training plan was a group training plan, like, but he would like, depending on how every person was, like, adjust slightly for each. And I just also think, like, he creates such a good environment with all these good people. Like I said before, like, we for some reason he was really good at just picking people that were great in the group, would work with the group that didn't have too big of an ego. So you lift each other from training and I think he's a good people manager like that we didn't get any fights or get frustrated or yeah like raced every training. And then obviously has his years of experience.
Jelle Geens:I think he already coached Simon Whitfield to an Olympic medal back before I even did triathlon. So he has lots and lots of experience, especially in short course. Yeah, I think just his reputation brings good athletes to him and he makes them even better. There is some example of people that maybe didn't get better under him due to probably circumstances. But I feel like most people that come to him, he really elevated to to another level.
Justin Metzler:Sure. I feel like in those group environments, and it seemed like the culture was so good and so positive there that one bad apple can sort of spoil the bunch. Did you feel as though there was anyone that came in that sort of, like, messed up the vibe at certain points? You don't have to call out any names. Or was he that good at sort of gatekeeping what you guys had?
Jelle Geens:At at one point, we would have, like Joel would work for National Federation. I think at one point, he worked for Italy. At one point, he worked for Australia. And there would be people coming in just for some camps. And I feel like those were the people that often want to prove themselves a bit too much in training.
Jelle Geens:They often would also come in a bit like mid camp being quite a lot fresher most of us and push the pace a bit too much. Yeah, I sometimes definitely got annoyed. Well, I probably also sometimes definitely got annoyed at people from the squad like it happens, you know, but I feel like that were mainly the situations where like pace would be pushed a bit too much. And then you do feel like everything falls a bit apart, I guess, where yeah, then some people follow this one guy and but then I feel like also what often happens is then after a couple days, they also like get super tired and then all of a sudden they, yeah, they hit the barrier and they can't do much anymore. I think that's really one of Joel's keys, like saying is like, yeah, consistency is key where you don't want to kill yourself on one training day and then not being able to do finish a session on the next day.
Jelle Geens:Feel like with Joel, we had quite a lot of high intensity, but also high volume that you can't really focus on just going all out on one session, but you really have to look at the bigger picture and all the weeks of training you had ahead before the first race of the season, for example, in a buildup towards the season, like it would be just week in week out, twenty eight to thirty hours for like eight weeks straight before we had a taper into the first race. Yeah, you couldn't like really go both to the wall and kill yourself on the session. But I do feel like sometimes when, like, people would come for just a camp or for a week or for two weeks, like, it would maybe, yeah, switch the dynamics a little bit.
Justin Metzler:Sure. I wanna talk a little bit now about transitioning into long course and departing from that group training environment. You said you worked with Joel for eight years. Did you immediately
Jelle Geens:go from Joel to your current coach, Ben? Yeah, actually, I had a talk with Joel. Yeah, I think it was a day after the mixed relay in Paris Olympics, which we weren't able to do because Claire, one of our teammates got sick. And just that whole, actually the last year for me at short course, kind of struggled mentally, mainly like to get motivated. Looking back at it, it probably was a year or two too much in short course.
Jelle Geens:Had a great 2022, then a quite disappointing 2023, which I'm not still not sure why. And then I actually had a quite hard like build up in the 2024 season. That's also why I did Oceanside 70.3 because I just needed something different. And then I had a very honest talk with Joel after Paris Olympics where I said, okay, I'm not too sure what to do. Like I wanna go into middle distance racing, but I'm not 100% sure what I do wanna do coaching wise.
Jelle Geens:He was like very, very open to it. Said, well, you know the training with me, like it might, yeah, it might be good for you to also try something something new. And then I I still did those. I did two seventy point threes like three and four weeks after the Olympics, which were still coached under under Joel while I was deciding and yeah, had actually in 70.3, I was there with Bart Arnaud and Ben was there with Mika and some of his other athletes, Patrick Lange was there as well. I was talking with Bart, like he's a good friend of mine.
Jelle Geens:I was talking with him about like, I'm not sure what to do coaching wise. And he said, why don't you contact Ben? Like, he's a good guy. Like I've heard good things about him. I had some good talks with him.
Jelle Geens:And then I contacted Ben and had a call and quite soon after I was like convinced to to to join him and yeah, then told Joel and Drew and joined Ben. I actually didn't have a period where I had no coach at all.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I'm curious what that conversation went like with Ben, and what was he saying to you during that conversation that made you so confident that that was the next move for you?
Jelle Geens:Yeah. For me, it was more like I said to him like, yeah, back then I was 31. I wanna go into middle distance racing. I wanna go into long distance racing. I don't have much experience at all.
Jelle Geens:I don't have time to screw around and like have two years to try and look, figure out what works for me. I need someone with experience, someone that knows what to do that has also just race tactics wise, a lot of experience. And he just convinced me that like he was the guy that was gonna gonna be able to get me perform straight away at 70.3 races or middle distance racing had quite disappointing talent in Zalam Zay. I still both finished on the podium. I feel like I was really not performing at my level there.
Jelle Geens:Felt like in training I was a lot better than I showed there and I wasn't sure why Because I felt like I had trained well for it. But yeah, then had this call with him where basically I said like, yeah, I don't have time. I wanna perform straight away. I don't wanna be 34 and like only figured out the key to success in middle distance. And yet just talking with him about all of it, he he kind of convinced me.
Jelle Geens:Yeah. That he was the he was the guy to to lead me to it.
Justin Metzler:Sure. And then once you got into it, how much of a departure was the training that he was prescribing from what you had been doing with Joel for the previous eight years?
Jelle Geens:I think there was, well, there was definitely changes between like Joel's short course training and Ben's middle distance training. I feel like with Joel, was definitely more intensity, especially like VO two kind of stuff. Like we would weekly do a track session where we would, yeah, finish like a two forty five per kilometer last reps. And didn't have that much with Ben at all, like it would be threshold or like very short VO two stuff. So that definitely was different.
Jelle Geens:I feel also like weeks were struck structured a bit different where with Joel, you had easy days, but they still evolved a hard swim, a bike and a gym. Where with Ben and also because I asked him or told him that I want to do this, have like Thursday, Saturday, very easy. I just have a swim and gym because I want to spend it with my family. But that means that the other days are really loaded and I train like five to six hours in the other five days of the week, and which I feel like with Joel it was maybe a little bit more spread out. And then I think a big difference now is I do these big days where I do a long run and a long bike where I have like six hours.
Jelle Geens:Yeah, on my legs basically and with Joel like they would be divided. I would do a long run on Saturday and the long bike on Sunday. So I feel like that's a big difference as well. And then with Joel, like I said before, you don't really have easy weeks or easy, easy days like, yeah, you only start having easier weeks when race is coming up and you start tapering like ten days out. Right now with Ben, I would do like three week training block and then like couple days, like three, four days a bit easier and then back into the next block.
Jelle Geens:So that would be a bit different as well.
Justin Metzler:Sure. And then now, obviously, in the Filial training group, you had people around all the time. Are you do you have training partners now? Has that been a struggle just psychologically to have to maybe do a little bit more on your own?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, I had training partners basically from 2011 onwards, 2012 onwards with first with the first group I was in in Belgium and then with Joel Group. But I do feel like with the family now, like I have a partner and almost two year old daughter, it does make it a bit easier not having to stick to a certain plan, like stick to certain times of training, which you definitely have with a group. And now I can just fill in my days a bit on how, yeah, whatever Kate is doing, my partner is doing or whatever, whenever I have to be with Sienna. So that makes a lot easier, like obviously I still train with people like mainly I would swim with a squat back in Australia because I don't really like swimming on my own. I find it mentally the hardest of the trip to do my own on my own.
Jelle Geens:And then I would occasionally link up with like Aaron Ward who lives now like ten-fifteen minutes drive from me. Or like other people for like an easy ride or an easy easy run. But with Ben like the sessions are so specific and individual on the on the bike and run mainly that it's easier to do it on your own anyway honestly. And I can enjoy it like I basically listen to podcasts on my bike and runs, which I've never done before. Like I would never run with or bike with music or anything in.
Jelle Geens:So that changed a lot actually as well but I can enjoy and have it a bit more freedom around like my schedule. I just have to basically do the training that's prescribed and whenever I do it doesn't really matter that much and I kind of enjoying like, obviously, sometimes I miss having training partners, especially like the friendship from it. Like I definitely miss those guys and girls I was training with. But yeah, I think for now, I think it made sense to do it this way.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Well, you've been a sports person now for, you know, over a decade and you grinded on the WTCS circuit for, yeah, like about ten years. How did you stay hungry and keep reinventing yourself as an athlete, I guess, during that period? It's maybe a little bit easier now that you've shifted to a new world of middle distance, but, I guess from a mindset perspective over the years that you were racing short course, how, how did you stay motivated during that time?
Jelle Geens:Well, for me, was like, well, in the beginning, obviously I was young and just wanted to evolve in the sport and see where I could end up basically. Then at one point, like in '20 So my first two years with Joel, I had some good races, but also quite a lot of bad race. That was like a bit throughout the whole time like from like 2012 when I No, 2013 when I became elite until like 2018, like consistency wasn't really there. So that was really something I was striving for. And then actually like the the winter from 2018 to 2019, I could really see that I know something clicked that winter and like all of a sudden like run with Mario and Vince and really like push them a bit as well.
Jelle Geens:You know, I could feel that was getting on their like run level. I was getting quite strong in the bike, more consistent in the swim. Like the swim was always my weakness, but I got quite consistent in the swim. And then I had my first WTS win actually in Montreal in 2019. So that was a big goal like that was ticked off.
Jelle Geens:But then it's like, I was never someone in short course that was on the podium all the time. Like I would always have like some bad races in there as well. And that kept me very hungry to have like a consistent year, which I feel like I had in 2022. I was sadly though consistent fourth or fifth a lot of the times, except for the grand final where I finished third. And then also got third, no, I got fourth overall.
Jelle Geens:So I was like, okay, this is a good step in the right direction. Then the 2023 year, I really wanted to get on the podium on the overall WDCS ranking. That's actually the year where training was going well, but for some reason it wasn't clicking in racing. And from then on, was actually kind of struggling. Like I always like build up to like better, better, better.
Jelle Geens:And all of a sudden it like dropped quite a bit. And I was like often racing for like twentieth spot or like twenty fifth. And I still had the podium that year, but like the consistency really wasn't there and I started to overthink everything in training and that's then also the bad thing that you have like six, seven years of like withdrawal, it's very often the same kind of training. So I feel like I was comparing way too much, like back when I was like fighting for the podium, fighting for the win and I'd got way too much in my head and the 2024 that's when I really struggled with getting motivated. I feel like I really needed a change.
Jelle Geens:But yes, still was like, I want to be good in Paris because I had this bad experience in Tokyo Olympics where I got COVID and couldn't raise the individual race. So I felt like I needed that redemption and that was just always in the back of my mind. Like I need to need to be good in Paris. I have something to prove there and ultimately I had a bad race in Paris as well. I got sick couple days before from from Sienna that that got sick and yeah, there's not much you can do about it.
Jelle Geens:Yeah, and then the whole Paris Olympics, like also everything around with the with the Belgium Trottle Federation, with the Belgium Olympic Committee. It just wasn't a fun experience for me at all. So back then I was really done with short course and I still feel like yeah, I'm still not over it like thinking about short course. I, yeah, like you said, I would rather do an Ironman every every month than doing a sprint distance race because I'm kinda, I'm still a bit over it. Yeah, it's just because I had such a hard year leading into Paris Olympics and it was such a relief like not having to rely on Belgium Federation anymore like changing to middle distance racing like you're way more on your own like and I really enjoyed that you just have to race for yourself Not for like your contract with the government or your like spot at the Olympic ranking because you want to go to the Olympics the next one and like it was just so freeing.
Jelle Geens:That yeah now I just enjoy life, enjoy training. Obviously, like it went really well, my jump to middle distance racing. So now I really wanna yeah, just keep performing well. Like I finished a lot of seconds this year, which obviously that makes me hungry to to be able to win a bit more in the next race and next year. So, yeah, just a whole different ballgame now.
Jelle Geens:Feel like it's a different distance, I've everything around changed, like new coach, we moved from Giroir to Australia. I just have my own to my, yeah, I don't have to rely on government funding and have to like always make top eight at the grand final or top three at European Champs. That's the criteria you have to hit to to keep your contract and yeah, I'm now it just well, I just think, yeah, sometimes it's you have to try something new and for me, it really was a good decision and I feel like I should have done it earlier.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. No, I get that. I guess before we move on, I wanna definitely dive more into the T100 and sort of where you're at now. If you could go back to your short course career, would you have changed any singular moment? Was there any decision that you may be made along the way that you'd go back and rewrite if you had the opportunity?
Jelle Geens:I'd say maybe just moving on from it a bit earlier. I think looking back at it now, it just that like the Olympics is just so big that I had to try it and probably if I would have jumped to middle distance racing earlier and didn't go to Paris, I would have regretted it as well. So in the end, like lives brings what it brings, I guess. And looking back at now, it's very easy to say like after 2022, should have shifted to middle distance racing, but I didn't know at the time and yeah, I wanted to have a good experience at the Olympics after two not such fulfilling experiences in 2016 and 2021. But for the rest, not really, I think, like I think, to be honest, I think I really maximized my abilities there.
Jelle Geens:I think I'm probably more suited for middle distance and long distance racing. I probably don't have that top end speed that you really need to have nowadays in short course. So I think I really like looking back at it, I'm quite proud of what I've achieved. And the first and still only Belgium to win a WTS, like I think I've podiumed the most of all Belgians, like together with Macht, I think we put a short course racing a bit on the map in Belgium. And I'm quite proud of that.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Totally. Alright. Well, let's dive more into the t one hundred where you've been super successful in the past two seasons diving, you know, right into that sort of racing. How happy are you with how the t one hundred has structured the season in terms of the number of races and where they're located in the world?
Justin Metzler:Because you guys seem to be on all different sorts of continents, which is something you're not unfamiliar with from your short course days. But how do you feel now that it's been it's a middle distance race and you have all these commitments now?
Jelle Geens:Yeah, for me it was like this year, well, actually in the winter, one plan was to do Ireland Switzerland and trying to qualify for Kona next year already. But then quite early on, like even before the season started, I decided like now I wanna I'm good at middle distance racing now. Like I wanna have a a year where I just focus on it. And then we made a plan with with with Ben where I yeah. I basically did all the T100 races up until now, which was the idea.
Jelle Geens:I want to get my four good scores written down that I now I could do a big block into seventy point three worlds, which obviously together with T100 was was one of my big or is one of my big goals this year because I have a title defend there. Yeah, I want this big block into seventy point three worlds and then also Doha because I felt like last year, it worked really well doing these big training blocks into T100 Las Vegas and then after into Ironman seventy point three World Champs in Taupo. So we structured year around the T100 with Marbella seventy point three as one of the top goals as well. And it is a lot of traveling, I think, especially now living in Australia, you have to really think about, you can't just fly back and forth all the time because very it far. I feel like those US races that we did in San Francisco and Vancouver there, they're quite easy to reach from Australia.
Jelle Geens:Like I had direct flight from Brisbane into West Coast Of The US I think. No, I think I flew over Sydney actually to go into San Francisco because I wanted to fly this specific day, but you did have straight flights from Brisbane. Anyway, it's quite easy to reach. But then obviously like Europe is, you're traveling for like twenty four hours. That's with a short layover.
Jelle Geens:So we decided first actually the plan was to go after T100 Spain. That was a couple of weeks ago to go home to Australia to prep there for seventy point three Worlds, then come back to race Marbella and then back to Australia. And we were looking in like flights were booked and stuff. We were looking into flights to go back to Spain to do seventy point three Worlds and Kate, my partner, was like, this is getting so expensive. Like, why don't we just stay in Europe?
Jelle Geens:Like, she's very flexible with her work and like our daughter doesn't have to go to school yet. So like why not do it? So we yeah, we called Qatar Airways and got our flights delayed till after after seventy point three Wozze Marbella. But so you really have to plan, I think. Like you can do a few big trips out and back.
Jelle Geens:Like I think it was good that I could do San Francisco, Vancouver in one go. I was there for three weeks and then come home. Singapore is quite easy to reach from Australia as well. But then the Europe block, like you really have to commit to a couple months in Europe and it's quite good because I have, like I am from Europe, I am from Belgium, so it's nice to see family, friends. Yeah, so it's been a good time here.
Jelle Geens:I think every year we're gonna have to do the same thing where we plan properly on on how we're gonna achieve the race I wanna do in the most efficient way without spending too much energy, too much jet lag on traveling, because I feel like that can ruin a lot.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. 100%. What is your perspective on the way the t one hundred has structured the contracts? Because you see some people like yourself who are diving a 100% into the t one hundred and really committing yourselves to winning a T100 title, but I feel like maybe 50 of the contracted athletes are dabbling in doing RMM World Championships or trying to dabble in the Pro Series or doing races all over. What's your perspective on that and do you think it's the best way for them to go?
Jelle Geens:Yes, so I think how T100 has made their contracts, they allow people, I think they want to have the flexibility for people to aim for Ironman World Championships, because I think otherwise they also know it's still the big dog out there. It's still the biggest race. So they also know if we don't allow anyone to do any other races besides the T100, there's probably not many people signing up. So I feel like people like Martin who are like doing the T100, but also aiming for Ironman Worlds in Nice this year, like I think that's a good combination. Should be possible, Like t 100 should be combinable with with some other goals.
Jelle Geens:Yeah. I feel like there's definitely people out there that are just taking the piss a bit and just take the contract just just for the money. And yeah, I like Fred Fred Frank is not gonna like to hear this, but I feel like him posting on his social media that he finished his season. He's just gonna do Dubai and Doha to fulfill his contract. Yeah, I find it quite bizarre to do and I think like, yeah, obviously, like you he has other goals next year.
Jelle Geens:He wants to do Ironman New Zealand early of the year and he feels like if he wants to be on his best there, he needs his break now, but he probably knew this before he was signing this contract. So like don't sign the contract then. But yeah, it's really hard for like how as a as a organization t 100, like, how can you avoid this? I guess it's quite hard like I yeah, they've they've tried it with the contracts now and there's like quite a lot of like, it's very specific on I'm not 100% sure exactly what how it's specified but like you can't do too many races in the two weeks when there is also a T100 race like you only have like couple opportunities that you can do this. And they've really like tried so that people have to more commit, you had to do Singapore the first race of the year.
Jelle Geens:But then it seemed like in the end, there's still people that still just seem there to get the free money to just get the contract and just race it while preparing for something else. I kind of find it quite sad because I think T100 really has elevated the triathlon sport I think while Ironman had to respond, they came with the Pro series. There's lots more money the sports thanks to T100, so I find it quite sad that people just see them as easy cash and not really wanting to commit 100% for the series. I think yeah, it's a sad thing because we I think, yeah, it would be a very sad day for the sport if t 100 stops exist. I think it will be, yeah, quite challenging years after, to be honest, I think.
Jelle Geens:Because then it just proves that like triathlon is not a sport that can be market for the bigger audience like at the television sports. So I think we all have a bit of a stone there to carry to make sure that triathlon stays on this level of this now where like you can really do well in triathlon for yourself. And I think, T100 really has done this very well and I hope they really succeed in it. And if that maybe is without having contracts in the future years, like maybe it is, Like there's a lot of stuff, like I find always funny that like there's lots of podcasts and people that have better ideas or this is how T100 should do it or this, but there's so much stuff I feel like that that comes with it that we're not even aware of. So, I feel like that they're more qualified to to know what will what will work and what won't.
Jelle Geens:And it's a new product. It's a new thing. Like, it will have issues. It will have like, I come from well, I've studied elect electronics and and and computer engineering. And it's like when you program a code, like, you program something, you try to run and you get all these errors.
Jelle Geens:And then you have to like one by one go through them and fix those errors. And I feel like that's a bit here as well. Like they gone for something, they see what works, what doesn't work, what sticks, what doesn't stick, and then have to pivot from it. And yeah, I'd say, like, it's easy to to bash on them, but, like, give them give them time, give them yeah. It's a new thing.
Jelle Geens:Give them like, Ironman has been in the sport for so long. Like, it's not easy to compete against him. So, yeah, I love it. I love racing t 100.
Justin Metzler:Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it puts it put puts athletes in an interesting position with it. How much and I guess maybe you're putting equal weight on everything because I'm sure you're a competitor and you wanna win all of the big races, but are you and Ben having conversations in terms of of weight to the season? Like, is something like Doha getting more weight than something like defending a 70.3 world title, or is your 70.3 world title defense the most important race for the season and that's your a goal, what are those conversations or thought processes like?
Jelle Geens:Starting the beginning of the year, like, we actually had three goals. One was t 100, two was defending my title in Marbella, and three was qualifying for Hawaii next year, which we then decide we're not gonna do number three. I'm now in a position at t one hundred where it seems impossible to win it because Hayden is well, he's beaten me on every location he had and he has just too many points ahead. Like, I think he has to come, like, fifth when I win or something at fourth or fifth maybe. So it seems very, yeah, not possible.
Jelle Geens:So then for me, like, now I feel like Marbella is more important for me than Doha, because Marbella, I can still win where I can't, like, probably without any bad luck for Hayden, I probably can't win t 100 overall ranking anymore. So like obviously like yeah, you like for me, I could see the difference for winning T100 Las Vegas or winning 70.3 World Champs in Taupo. Ironman definitely is under population like still the big dog, like I said before, and you could see that in everything like with sponsors, like after Taupo, like a lot of doors opened for me, which they didn't open after Las Vegas. So there's definitely way to it that way. And like, obviously, like I won it last year, I want to win it again.
Jelle Geens:And the Norwegians weren't there last year or Kasper was there, but he was sadly standing on the side of the road cheering. So like I want to also see my best version of the best version of myself against the best version of the Norwegians there. I've raised all the people in T100. So for now, like, Marbella really motivates me, like on this camp, I envision Marbella in the hard sessions, not Doha yet. See, I guess in the beginning of the year, like it starts a bit at the same level.
Jelle Geens:In those first races, I don't think about Marbella yet. I just focus on T100 and with T100 being a series over multiple races, you just have to like take off the races, don't think too much yet about the overall standing. Where now I am there and yeah, it seems a bit impossible to win where I can win Marbella. So yeah, I wanna focus big time on Marbella and I hopefully I can achieve my goals there and then I have five weeks to to basically go for Doha with with I'm I'm sure I'll be have the same, like, fight for it as as I have now for Marbella in training.
Justin Metzler:Sure. You mentioned Hayden. He has come back from his crash, like, on dominant form. Has that been frustrating for you to go to the races and try to find a way to beat him and still have him come out on top? And if so, what are you trying to do in the future to get the upper hand on him?
Jelle Geens:I've raised Hayden a lot like also in short course, and he mostly has beaten me. He's like I've said this before, I think he's probably the most talented triathlete in the world at the moment. Like I yeah, it's hard to beat him like I am well aware. I've done it in Taupo last year. So I'm sure I can do it.
Jelle Geens:Feel like I have it within me, but I need the perfect, perfect day, which I feel like I haven't had yet. I didn't have a great day in London. Had my chain fell off in Frisjou and I crashed in Oropessa race, But still it would have been like, don't get me wrong, those are no excuses. He was stronger, I wasn't able to compete with him there. Yeah, but I guess it's frustrating in a way, I'm also realistic enough that like, yeah, I know I need like that one day, you know, where everything goes well to be able to compete with him.
Jelle Geens:Yeah, to be honest, like, yeah, he, I just look like, look up to him, like he, how he comes back from his crash and stuff. It's, it's impressive. It's good for the sport, I think, but, yeah, obviously, I still wanna beat him very badly. But, it's it is what it is, I guess. I I feel like I haven't this year raised him where I was on my full potential yet.
Jelle Geens:So I hope to to have that in in in Doha where I can hopefully make it a bit more of an exciting race. I mainly like mainly this frustrates me that like, yeah, I haven't even really came close yet, which I feel like I really can. But yeah, it's, as I said, it is what it is. Like in the end of the day, I don't lay awake in my bed thinking about it. Like I'm happy with how I'm doing.
Jelle Geens:Like I said before, I'm just enjoying life quite a lot, like just training, like spending time with my daughter. And I've achieved this year more than probably in August 2024. I would think I could in the rest of my whole career. So I'm kind of proud of it. I've won two races this year and I've came three times second, four times second twice to three times to Hayden.
Jelle Geens:So, yeah, it is what it is. It's better than becoming tenth of eleventh.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's that's amazing perspective because I think sometimes it's hard for the best of the best to accept anything other than victory. But I think, like, to celebrate those successes is I think really important and obviously there's still a lot of season left for you to put yourself out there and obviously try to go for the win at these races. One question here in terms of the future, you've mentioned that you're definitely you seem you're seemingly over the short course game, but LA is coming up. Is there anything that would draw you back to short course to try and go for the Olympics again?
Jelle Geens:No. No. No. The marathon maybe.
Justin Metzler:Interesting. I do you think that there's anybody from the Belgian national team that is a young up and comer who would put them in a position for a medal in the mixed relay or the individual? And if not, do you and Martin potentially feel a responsibility to go there, or do you feel like you've given everything that you could to the country and the federation?
Jelle Geens:Well, I think Yulid Vlmael is doing really well. Like if she can, like the progression she made from last year to this year is quite impressive. And I think if she can keep this up, she can definitely aim for a medal at LA individually. I think for mixed relay it's gonna be hard like I think we really miss, miss three more people I guess. Like there's some people that do occasion to good races, like a bit like with me in the beginning of my season, like that consistency a bit.
Jelle Geens:To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what's coming. Like I know we had a guy winning a European Junior Cup, like a month ago maybe. So obviously he is quite a big down. I think it was from I think I meddled last in 2012 and there was another Belgium Christophe De Geisse who meddled in 2012 at the Junior European Cup. Since we didn't have any medals.
Jelle Geens:So that definitely looks good for the future. I think we have some great people within the federation like Claire Michel who was with us in Paris and Tokyo and Rio Olympics actually is now the High Performance Director for the Wadonian Trapnel Federation. I have a lot of confidence in her to get our huge backup on the rails, I think. For me, I can't speak for much, but for me, I feel like I've given everything I have for short course. Yeah, I don't see myself coming back to help the team out or to do a real like, it's not that easy either.
Jelle Geens:You need to be, I think it's like top 140 in the world. I will have to do some individual races as well, perform well. Yeah. And just honestly, like financially, it doesn't make sense.
Justin Metzler:Yeah, I get that. Interesting. You mentioned the marathon. If you gave yourself twelve months from now until a marathon, what do you think you could run?
Jelle Geens:That's a very good question. Well, what did Alex run? Two eleven? I feel like he has quite a lot more in him. It was a hot day in London.
Jelle Geens:I don't know, 02/12, 02/13 maybe, but that's a very big guess. I have honestly no idea. I think I have potential for it. I feel like those longer distances really suit me, especially in the running. But yeah, I will need to change a lot like, yeah, I need to I'm running now max maybe 90 to 100 ks's a week.
Jelle Geens:I think I probably need to at least double that to be even remotely in contention for like a two twelve marathon. But at one point, I was thinking how it would be cool to try to go for Brisbane Marathon Olympics because it's, like, an hour from where I live now. But, yeah, honestly, I don't think it's gonna happen.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I think a lot of really good triathlete runners have that thought. Like my wife Jeannie, at one point she was one of the best runners in triathlon, long, like middle distance, and she's from South Africa. She's like, oh, let me see if I can go run the standard, but it's kind of similar to going back to short course unless you're a professional marathoner. There's not a lot of money in No.
Jelle Geens:No. No.
Justin Metzler:Professional marathon running. So you best be sticking to your day job, you know.
Jelle Geens:Well, the test standards are getting so hard. Like, I think what was it for Paris? I think you had to run two or eight ten to be automatic qualified. And in Belgium, there actually were three people running two under two zero eight ten. So it's yeah.
Jelle Geens:It's impossible.
Justin Metzler:Okay.
Jelle Geens:Yeah. Like, in another life maybe, you know? Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Go for a master's record, you know
Jelle Geens:Yeah.
Justin Metzler:When we're when we're all done. Alright. Well well, cool. Yeah. This has been awesome to get to know your story here.
Justin Metzler:Before we wrap up, I've got some rapid fire questions. You ready for them?
Jelle Geens:Go for it.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Alright. Number one, if you had to make a jelly bean, what Belgian food flavor would it
Jelle Geens:be? I guess it has to be Belgian fries. Although, I'm not sure it would be nice in a jelly bean. But, yeah, I guess it's it's a bit although, speculoos.
Justin Metzler:Oh, you're gonna to tell the listeners what that is. Nobody knows what that is.
Jelle Geens:Do you know, like, the little cookies you get with with a coffee? It's called speculoos.
Justin Metzler:Okay. Yeah.
Jelle Geens:They made that in like a paste, like a Nutella kind of thing. It's very good. It's dangerous for me. If I buy the jar, I would just like eat it with a spoon, you know?
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Alright. Number two, this is a fan submission. You might have an understanding or a guess of who this one might might have come from. What does it mean to lay the foundation for the rest of the season?
Jelle Geens:Yeah. I know who this one is from. Yeah. This was funny. I think it actually was in Chicago at the after party where we Belgians, we like to go out after like important races.
Jelle Geens:And I said to, I think, yeah, it was Claire Michel and Valerie Bartellemi at that point, we need to drink more. This is where we laid the foundation for the rest of the season.
Justin Metzler:That's the key. It's just more drinks. All right. What is your favorite Precision Fuel product?
Jelle Geens:Well, I actually really love the new 60 gram chews. I think they're great for like these long for probably when you do Ironman even longer rides. I think they're great. And then, yeah, I use the what is it even called? Like the the normal, like, sports drink without sodium.
Jelle Geens:That's what I use for my races. So I use that a lot. I use a lot of those bags.
Justin Metzler:You you do the one without the sodium?
Jelle Geens:Yeah. Yeah. And then I add actually the the sodium, like, little capsules in it to get my sodium intake in.
Justin Metzler:Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Have you done the sodium composition test? Do you know that?
Justin Metzler:What your
Jelle Geens:number is? Yeah. I've done it. I was quite low. I lost a low salt sweater.
Jelle Geens:I can't even like, $5,600 maybe? Yeah. That's quite low. Actually I'm surprised by that. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. We we always well, because we have a coaching business and we get most of our athletes to do the sodium composition testing and a lot of the ones who come to us who are already really fast and the best athletes in the world tend to have it pretty quite low. You do see some people who have a high sodium composition. They're out there if you like read through the precision test or whatever but like some of the best in the world are between like 500 and a thousand. So I wasn't surprised when you say
Jelle Geens:five Yeah. Right,
Justin Metzler:cool. What's your favorite training location in the world?
Jelle Geens:Just for training, really like Vohomme. I've spent a lot of time there. It's like in the Pyrenees and altitude, and I feel like it has the combination of beautiful riding and like really nice running and lots of options. So I really love it there, but then there's nothing to do there, you know. It's just literally just for training.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Which is good for a period of time.
Jelle Geens:Yeah. Definitely. Definitely.
Justin Metzler:And what's the hardest single session you've ever done?
Jelle Geens:Oof. Actually, very recently in between T100, what was it, Frejus and Oropesa, we want to get some more speed into me, especially on the run. And I've done these sessions where I it was 10 by 400 with like forty five seconds of it, like 64. And then into some like threshold running and it it literally like I was destroyed from it because I'm just not used to those spaces at all anymore. Like, I I became slow.
Justin Metzler:No. I doubt that.
Jelle Geens:But that's what we that's what we're working on.
Justin Metzler:Well, I guess so. Contextual. Slow is contextual. Well, it was awesome, man. I really appreciate you taking the time to join me today.
Justin Metzler:And, yeah, obviously, wish you the best for the rest of the season.
Jelle Geens:Thank you very much. Yeah. You too. Thank you.
Justin Metzler:Cheers.
