Charlie Lawrence: World Record Holder and Professional Runner
Alright. Welcome to another episode of the Endurance Matters podcast. I am really stoked today to have on Charlie Lawrence. He's a 50 mile world record holder and US Fifty k champion. Charlie, welcome to the show.
Charlies Lawrence:Dustin, happy to be here, bro. Been, I remember you reaching out a while ago saying, yo, let's get you on the pod and making it happen, dude. I've been looking forward to it for a while.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Me too. I mean, listeners of the podcast will I'm a triathlete,
Charlies Lawrence:I know a
Justin Metzler:lot about triathlon, but I really am interested in running. And we've just kind of been in the same circles the last couple of years, see each other at the reservoir all the time training, and it's been stoked to see your progress. So I'm excited to dive into, like, yeah, your background and and obviously what you've been up to. I always start podcast with icebreaker questions. So first question is, if you had to replace your aid station table with one non sport specific beverage and one non sport specific food, what
Charlies Lawrence:would you choose? My head right went went to Coke, but that's race specific.
Justin Metzler:Borderline, yeah. Borderline.
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, gosh. I'm a lemonade guy. Oh. But again, also that's also like you could throw that in your bottle too, so like I'm I'm failing at this question.
Justin Metzler:No, lemonade's that's fair. That's fair play.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Cool. Lemonade and then but so I'm like, I think the race mentality, if someone I could throw down a banana. Yeah. I feel like that
Justin Metzler:they have that on aid station tables. You know what I mean?
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, god. I have a pretty strong stomach, so it's like just still get like, again, race mentality. Like, get me sugar, like get me just a candy bar or something or Perfect. Like I don't like they have gummy bears and stuff and ultras, but like, I don't think they might even have candy bars, but we're if we're talking this theory, yeah, I'd definitely go or in this scenario, I'd go, yeah, candy barking and throw that down.
Justin Metzler:That's true. Just give
Charlies Lawrence:me sugar injection in my veins, dude.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Is And lemonade. My wife's mother has run the Comrades Ultra Marathon a couple She's run it five times actually, and she was talking us through her nutrition strategy, and she would they would have baked potatoes there.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. She would
Justin Metzler:go with the baked potato and she would actually have a steak in the morning and then baked potatoes as her fuel and stop for a cigarette every, like, five That's
Charlies Lawrence:ridiculous and also savage. Kinda like, I respect it. I couldn't do it, but I respect So
Justin Metzler:I feel like the steak would be easier than the cigarette, but anyways, it's kind of a savage way to
Charlies Lawrence:do it. Yeah. Especially, like, the morning of Yeah. Steak. Steak.
Charlies Lawrence:Where to buy? I mean, I'm a steak guy, so
Justin Metzler:Yeah. You should try.
Charlies Lawrence:For it. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Well, cool. Why don't you first start off by telling me a little bit about, like, where you're from and how you first got into running?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah, man. So grew up in Central Minnesota, small town in Foley, Minnesota. It's near Saint Cloud, if that means anything to anyone. About seventy five minutes north of the the Twin Cities. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:Basically, was I won't say thrown into it, but like in a way was so my dad, when I was first born, was the football coach at our high school, the track coach, and my mom was a cross country coach. So just both teachers, both coaches, shown to practice as from my earliest memories, I'm just like hanging out at meets or football games or track meets. So then I got come around to basically first grade, towards the back end of first grade. My parents end up getting a divorce. So then that coming fall, it was either go to like daycare or go to cross country practice as a second grader.
Charlies Lawrence:And I'm like, daycare sounds pretty lame. Like And truthfully, some days I'd go to daycare and just nap, you know, because it's like sounds a little better than, you know, trying to like, you know, race people. That was my mentality. But the first day of practice, I go to cross country as a second grader. They do basically this, like, mile time trial around, like it's like the practice baseball field, practice football field, so it's, like, roughly half mile loop, you know.
Justin Metzler:It's, you know, probably could
Charlies Lawrence:be seven fifty, could be eight fifty, no one knows, but whatever. So they're doing this time trial for the seventh and eighth graders. My mom's like, you wanna hop in? And I'm like, yep, sure. And I I just remember like just that nervous energy, pre race energy just like rearing to go.
Charlies Lawrence:And basically, I get one off and I just full sticked it from the gun and and like beat everyone as a second grader. And I'm like, damn, this shit is fun. Yeah. Like, this is really fun. And, you know, I beat seventh, eighth graders and I think they even might have had ninth graders.
Charlies Lawrence:But nonetheless, I'm like, alright, like, there's there's something to this. Sure. So that was really my first experience being like, alright. Like, you got some, like, you know, some talent in this judging. I don't know.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, here's the thing too. I know nobody on that line wanted to lose to me either. So I was like, it's like, alright. Like, we'll we'll see what we can do. So like I said, truthfully, like, some days I go to daycare, most days I'm like hopping into even like, you know, if there's a track session, like, I'm gonna probably pick and choose some reps where I wanna beat you on.
Charlies Lawrence:And then might sit at one and hop in again when I'm fresh. And I know they hated it. Sure. But, I was just there from basically almost second grade on going to cross country practice and track practice. And it's kind of, you know, evolved from there.
Charlies Lawrence:Obviously, middle school, high school, and and all that. Sure.
Justin Metzler:And you were state champion in high school. Is that correct?
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, that was a two time. Yeah. So won the 3,200 meters my junior and senior year. Was third in cross country as a junior to two seniors. And then so I was hoping to, like, honestly take that my senior, but my freshman roommate at the University of Minnesota, Matt, got me.
Charlies Lawrence:He had he had a great fall that year, so and still sucks losing. But, yeah, it was a two time, wish I had a couple more, always, but Sure. Still definitely, you know, set me up for, you know, getting to college and getting a Division I scholarship, so.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Was it always the plan to go and stay in state and go to University of Minnesota? Did you have other offers on the table?
Charlies Lawrence:That was my definitely my number one, for sure. I mean, for me, growing up in Minnesota, like, they had a great program at the time, like and I'll definitely reference him probably 10 times in this podcast, but C Placentia Plas, if I was what I'll call him, but that was his nickname. He was a two time Olympian himself. Obviously, head coached the Gophers. They had made 16 straight NCAA championships.
Charlies Lawrence:They had guys like Hassan Meade, Ben Blankenship. I mean, Harunov done track. I'm trying to think of else. Just Chris Rombo, just filthy teams, like All Americans. Like, was, as a true freshman or second year, sophomore, 19 year old, he won big tens, beat like Matt Tegenkamp, Chris Zelinski, and those guys.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, their teams are really good. Like, couple couple top tens were consistently, like, top three in the big 10, teens at the NCAA championships. So for me, as soon as Plaz gave me calls, I kinda knew I was gonna go there. But, like, don't worry, I looked at, like, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Iowa State, Iowa as well. Their program wasn't as established as, like, a Minnesota or Wisconsin or even Notre Dame, but came down to to Minnesota.
Charlies Lawrence:Kind of as soon as passed, you know, through, like, me and offers, like, alright. I can't not take this. Don't don't worry. Definitely considered other other schools, but Sure. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:I just kinda grew up a a girlfriend my entire life and just made a ton of sense and close to home and just a great program like that and great coach. Sure.
Justin Metzler:Did you ever run-in Iowa City? University Of Iowa?
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, yeah. So Iowa City was they had a couple of meets we'd go to track, then we had big tens there at my that was my first big ten meet in cross country.
Justin Metzler:Yep.
Charlies Lawrence:And then regional's my fourth year. Nice. And, like, that was my first big ten. I didn't run, like, one out too hot and kinda faded, so kinda poor memory. And then at least it's kind of a sore memory, I guess.
Charlies Lawrence:And then my fourth year, yeah, regionals were there, and we I was, like, nineteenth year prior regionals, and then I was only eighteenth the next year, so it was kind of disappointing personal performance for me. Sure. Like, we had a shot to make the national meet, and we actually didn't that year being there the year prior, so that kind of stung. But, yeah, none nonetheless, Iowa City's been there a few times.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's where I went to college, and I would I was doing triathlon at the time. I was racing professional triathlon, like, my last couple years of college, but I was, like, running on that cross country course all the time and then like hanging out with some of the cross country guys and girls and track guys and girls and then some of the swimmers as well. So like, yeah, always had a bit of FOMO that I didn't do the college running thing. We might have if I had gone that direction, we might have been racing each other because we're similar Yeah.
Justin Metzler:I'm 31. So we you probably were there. I probably saw you run at some point For sure.
Charlies Lawrence:In Iowa City. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:It's like cheering on my friends or whatever.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. And and I'll I'll say too, one, that's a great course. And two, like, had a couple good friends. Minnesota kids go to Iowa. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:So, like, you like, that was a team where, like, no offense to Wisconsin, we just hated Wisconsin. There's a still kind of a deep hatred not necessarily deep hatred, but there's I don't like any anything red, especially, like, you know, Madison. I don't really like that city even though I was just there. But, yeah, like Iowa, like, they're all all great guys and I mean, everyone in Wisconsin, great guys too. But, yeah, like Iowa City, like Carver, like those are like, I I actually went on unofficial to Iowa.
Charlies Lawrence:Cool. That was my first unofficial. And, like, I don't know if you know Wiz, their coach, Larry Wozork. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:I
Charlies Lawrence:Ran
Justin Metzler:into him a couple times.
Charlies Lawrence:Super energetic dude. Like, really I mean, again, junior day, so you're just, like, trying to pitch everything, show everything. Sure. I was like I was like, dang, could kinda see myself going here. Especially, like, with their indoor track now and stuff, their facility.
Charlies Lawrence:So Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Nonetheless, Iowa City, no not great memories, but I I definitely don't don't mind the Hawkeyes.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Sick place. I enjoyed going to college there. So when you were going to college and you were running, was it always the plan to go pro or did you have sort of like a traditional career path lined up after college?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. No. No plan to go pro. Honestly, my, like, goal was just like coming out of college, at least. I was a couple times all big 10, all region and cross country, no real track accolades, really.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, wish I had more, but I just, like, wasn't great on the track. But I one thing throughout college, like, Plaz was super super savvy, you know, brought me up every summer as, you know, first summer, 70 miles. Next summer, 80. Next one, ninety. Going into my, you know, 100 to basically one ten, that progression, all with, like, fairly aggressive long runs on the weekends and, you know, at least once or twice a week or once every other weekend in the summer.
Charlies Lawrence:And I just adapted really, really, like, really well to those, built that aerobic base, and I was doing mostly singles too, which I think honestly contributes to kind of just the workload, like most of the workload I can handle now and just really, really building that foundation. And he'd always say to me, you'll be great on the roads one day, like, whatever that means. I have, you know, no clue. I'm like, I guess if I could just qualify for the trials, that'd be sick. So, yeah, I finished up competing the spring of twenty eighteen at Minnesota and then my goal kind of leaving was, I guess, going back to your question, like, had a full time job lined up as an account executive for the Gophers.
Charlies Lawrence:We're gonna take it sales. So I was Kinda sick. Yeah. I was I was a I was a business marketing and sports management major, double than that, and then I got my master's in my fifth year in sports management. So I was like, I wanna be a power five AD one day.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, that's the goal. Is it still the goal? Probably not, but, but we'll see. I still have I got the master's degree and and a couple degrees that Sure. That'll be useful at some point, hopefully.
Charlies Lawrence:So Yeah. Yeah. My goal after finishing up that spring was like, alright, I just wanna qualify for the twenty twenty marathon trials, and then I can just be go compete, train hard, obviously, work hard too. Was in a sales role, so it's like the more time I'm on the phones, more time in the office, the more money I'm making. Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:So, it's kind of a hard balance, but I'm like, I think I can, one, just qualify, and then, two, train hard for the next two years right after this, like, you know, go do my career, you know? Sure. And, yeah, I just happened to to go so basically, we talked with Plaz. So I'm like, yo, what, like, what race should I do? Like, what do you think?
Charlies Lawrence:He's like, I think you should do CIM, which is, you know, this is now May, June '20 '18. That was December 2018. So I'm like, cool. It gives us more than a half year, like, get more mileage underneath me. Just kinda get the full marathon segment, like, in the legs, and we'll see what we can do.
Charlies Lawrence:And again, the goal the standard at that time was was 02/19 and my thing going into Zeiss Warner on 02/18, like '59. Like, I don't I don't care about anything other than that just kinda getting that OTQ. And long story short, it just went went so well that, you know, I ran two sixteen ten in my debut, which is literally like I tied my PR to the second, like, two years ago. So it's literally still my PR. And two sixteen held a little more weight, you know, seven years ago at this point.
Charlies Lawrence:Sure.
Justin Metzler:Pre carbon shoes. Right?
Charlies Lawrence:I was wearing I was wearing vapor flys.
Justin Metzler:Okay. So the first iteration of a Vaporfly or whatever.
Charlies Lawrence:Yep. So I was wearing the the neon like fours with the finite upper. Sure. Like the neon orange. But basically up until that, like I did all my training in like streaks or or Nike flies.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. And and Like, simple shoe. Yeah. And leftover Nike structures that we had that we got at the U because they were they were Nike school
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:Or at Minnesota. And, yeah, so 02/1610, and then basically the next week, I'm, you know, chatting with I'm texting Ben Rizzaro at NAZ Elite and, like, Kevin Hansen from Hansen's flew me out basically a couple weeks later to Michigan. That was just the best option, truthfully. I'm just like, I can't not really take this opportunity. Kind of the I don't wanna say the rest is history from there, but obviously been doing the pro running thing basically since December 2018 until, you know, today, sitting here at 04/21/2025.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. A %. Was that did you have to change coaches then? So you were working with Plaz up until CIM and then you had to switch over when you started doing the professional running. Was that a tough transition?
Justin Metzler:Because it seemed like you guys had so much success, had built up the rapport and the relationship.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. That that was the thing. I just it like it was my really my only option was to I wouldn't wasn't really good enough to get like a big individual contract at that time with two sixteen ten. So it's like but Kevin's like, hey, we can like really develop you. Like, we've developed, you know, Brian Sell and Olympian, Des obviously, and a couple other just great guys to come through the program really competitive on the national level, you know, have run well at Marathon Majors.
Charlies Lawrence:Definitely forgetting a couple few a couple off the top of my head. But yeah. So I had to kinda make that shift, but just in talking to One Plaz and then Kevin kind of in his program, their training is, you know, a little different. Like, Hansen's is pretty heavy on the mileage, a lot of fatigue, cumulative fatigue is their thing. Like, get used to running on tired legs.
Charlies Lawrence:Plaza would be, like, a little more fresh for it. You know, and even for me working a full time job, like, my middle my like, my middle of the week session would just be like, Iskie Hills, that's all I had time for. Like, get out the door, don't change shoes, go run like, he'll repeat as hard as you can, run home, shower, quick, get in the office, on the phones. With Hansen's, it was like, you know, the same thing. It was a nine day cycle.
Charlies Lawrence:So workout, two easy days, but it's fourteen and four, 14 and four, workout, then two more easy days. True. Plaza is basically, you know, two a week with maybe like a semi moderate long run after like a Saturday session and then go Sunday. But that was more a little more controlled, especially, like, the Monday, you know, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, or, you know, maybe there are days where I could do something else in the morning or, like, leave the office quick to go, like, do work out with the boys at practice and come back to the phones at 6PM for an hour just to, like, kinda make up for something I may have missed, maybe catch maybe catch someone on their couch or, you know, after dinner on the phone. So, yet, Hansen was just definitely a little more I was able to come into session a little more fresh with Plaz and try to really nail him to get confidence from that.
Charlies Lawrence:Hans was like, you might flop these sessions, but it's like, but it's okay because you're really tired and you're gonna get strong doing this. So that was definitely probably the biggest adjustment in training.
Justin Metzler:Sure. And so you go from training at the university to now you're in a professional squad. Where do you go from there and how do you end up in Boulder?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. So for me yeah. I I truth be told, looking back, I definitely didn't give Hansen's and Kevin enough time to really develop me. I was, like, still I thought what had worked so well with Plaz and again, Plaz had had me for basically as a as soon as I graduated, like, won the state meet my senior year, like, Plaz was already my training. That like, that basically, that next day, I'm like, yo, what are we doing?
Charlies Lawrence:He's like, yo, take two weeks off first, then like, we'll then I'm in charge of you, but you you need to recover. So, you know, he had seen me from basically the summer fall of twenty thirteen all the way to the spring of twenty eighteen, like, like, you know, would guess fall of twenty eighteen even, you know? Sure. Better part of years.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. With you.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. And, you know, with with Hansen's, it was just like, I got into it and you you think it's like, oh, I'm gonna set the world on fire. Like, I ran two sixteen in my debut, like, like, I'm gonna go run two thirteen, you know, like, this this next one out and, like, I'm gonna adjust to training really well and I just didn't. I was like, it 's my first time, like, truly being out of Minnesota. Don't worry, like, we're set up for a successor, a %.
Charlies Lawrence:It was just me, like, I just kinda optimized everything over the past five years in Minnesota, and it's, like, I didn't give myself enough time to optimize everything in Michigan with Sure. With that crew. And went through the trials in 2020 with Hansen's. Finished sixty first, which on pay like, truthfully, like, going in, was like, it's not a terrible day, honestly, like, from where where I was at. Like, I I'd run my first, like, 40 mile week.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, I was excited for that, but it just, like, really put me in a hole and I wasn't able to dig myself out of it. Like, I kind of know how to now. Sure. And so I just kind of made, I won't say, like, a knee jerk reaction. It it was pretty knee jerk.
Charlies Lawrence:I was just disappointed with with my result. I wanted to at least, like, top 25, which, I think is still in my wheelhouse come, you know, twenty twenty eight. But again, we'll see. So basically, I was like, I just kinda need you know, want need a change. You know, had friends here like Will Lear was still training out here.
Charlies Lawrence:Just known him. I've known Will since middle school. Cool. So, like, just knowing people out here, obviously, you know, ran against Reed Fisher all the time in high school, would have been in college as well. Just knowing people, like, older sick, like, even, like I'll shout out to the Tin Man boys.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, they were, like that's what I don't wanna say peak Tin Man, like but they were just, like, it was, like, cool to see, like, just, like, Boulder and, like, just, like, the aura of Boulder and, like, the groups here, even, you know, like, team boss, you know, with Will, said the Tin Man boys. Even just like the triathletes. Know, I I remember coming in and just talking to Will, like, on the phone and Michel, like, yo, what do think about me moving here? And he's like, well, I'll tell you this, like, Boulder, it's a great city. Don't get me wrong, but it's like but even before it's a it's a running town, it's a triathlete town.
Charlies Lawrence:Then arguably, even before it's a triathlete town, it's a cycling town. So that's what that's what you're gonna learn if you get here and
Justin Metzler:%.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. So I'm like, didn't understand at the time. Like, bro, what do you mean? It's like, it's like running capital USA, dude. But But, anyways, yeah, I was just like, alright.
Charlies Lawrence:Boulder sounds like like a good good spot if I wanna continue doing this. And truthfully, for for a while, I was like and COVID hit too, so I'm I'm just, like, holed up in Michigan. I'm like, I just wanna kinda wanna, like, you know, get out and and do something and, like, kind of really see what I can do and, like, just test the limits of it. I've always heard about altitude. I had a buddy hooked in Carter Springs.
Charlies Lawrence:He's a W cap cyclist. Nobody's Tristan Manorfelt. Actually, strength coach right now. You know, I'd come out and visit him, like, over winter break and, like, actually visit him, like, right kind of right when COVID hit and, like, ran with Reed when I was here. And I'm just like, yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:It just pulls you in, man. %. See the flat irons for the, like because it's actually my first time in Boulder running with Reed. Like, you drive down, like, you know, coming out of Superior, the Flat East, and you're just like, oh, man.
Justin Metzler:Gets you it gets you right away. Yeah. Like, coming in no matter which way you come, whether you come, like, thirty six or you come in from the airport, you, see that flat iron view, you see the snow capped mountains and the continental divide, and you're like and then you get on the trails, you're like, woah. You run around the res for the first time and it really captures your imagination. Like, from a running perspective, some of the best running in the world, I'd argue.
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, I've run
Justin Metzler:a lot of places and the cycling in my opinion is even better. Yeah. So, like, you know, if you ever get into triathlon one day or you ride a bit more, if you ever unfortunately have another injury, like, the riding here is so good. So that's why it's a triathlete's paradise because it's like, oh, man. You get, like, the best of both worlds.
Justin Metzler:You know? You're a professional cyclist and a professional runner more or less, and you get to experience it all. Yeah. So I could totally understand how that captures your imagination right away. Sponsor of today's episode, Precision Fuel and Hydration.
Justin Metzler:These guys have been an amazing partner for the show, and it's really a product that I use every single day of my training to help me go faster, feel better. So in today's day and age, we all know high carb is sort of the thing, and so previously, I've spoken about how much I like the chews, and I'm still munching on those pretty much every single day in training, but I've really been getting into the p f ninety gels. That's been a really big value add for me to have three gels in one, and I feel like sometimes I'll just take that entire gel all at once or go half and half. It just allows me to get a little bit more carbohydrate and sort of just bump everything up and feel a little bit better in training. So if you want to try that for yourself, head on over to PFNH.com and use code BIGMETTS2025 for 15% off.
Justin Metzler:So when you first get here, you're stoked on it. What does the training environment look like? Do you just try to find dudes to run with? Do you hire a coach? How does that what is what happens then?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. It was a bit of a mix truthfully. So, like, right when I ran ran with Reed, that was probably, don't quote me, like, May 2020. And I was like, yeah. I'm like, probably gonna leave Hansen.
Charlies Lawrence:He's like, oh, like and they were coached by Tom Short at the time. And he's like, he's like, yeah, Tom will Tom will probably coach you. So then literally, like, I just set up reconnected us, set up a meeting with Tom when I was still out here. I was like, yeah, would would love to coach you. I know Tom has a massive coaching business.
Charlies Lawrence:So, like and if it's he sees potential in you, he's definitely not gonna say no to coaching you, truth be told. So Sure. So that that was just, oh, yeah. Makes makes sense, and I can, you know, maybe occasionally hop in with with Reed and those guys. So that was kind of all I needed to hear and, like, boom.
Charlies Lawrence:So set that up. And then they kinda went through, you know, the coaching transition. Corey came to town. Leslie, who I've known we've known who he is for a long time. Like, he was big ten Superstars champion when I was in high school, you know, like Ohio State guy.
Charlies Lawrence:He was staying at Will and Ayesha's, and I lived a block south of Will and Ayesha at the time where they lived in North Boulder. And that was that was intentional because I'd like honestly, if I needed anything, like, it's still if I need anything, like, Will probably be like if I'm in jail, Will will probably be my like, hey, Will. Need you to come get me out, you know?
Justin Metzler:We all got that one guy that you can call. I got I got the same guy as Dave as Will. He's like, oh, got any issues? You call that dude.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Yeah. Will Will's Will's still my guy. So so yeah. So it was just like he was Will and Ash were somewhere, but Corey was like, yo, let's come over and have some beers.
Charlies Lawrence:And this is kinda like, again, the transition's going down and Corey's basically just like, you know, transition's going down, like, I'll I'll I'll coach you if if you want, you know, because I'm because I don't want you kind of getting you basically took me under his wing and, like, not quite sure what's gonna happen. Like, I'm not gonna leave you hanging if something happens. So that was great. So then to, like, Corey took me under his wing, like, went to Scottsdale with him that fall along, like, winter, trained with him. Corey was great.
Charlies Lawrence:But then Corey got the Baltimore job, which is financially just a better gig for him. Sure. So then Corey took the took the Baltimore job. I stayed here, like, again, love Corey. Like, we talked the other week.
Charlies Lawrence:He's, like, wish me good luck pre 50 k and stuff. But then, obviously, with him being in Baltimore, that's hard. He can't advise on me all the time. And just through living in Boldark, I mean, you you get it. Like, you, you know, you train with other triathletes, run with other people and stuff.
Charlies Lawrence:And, like, I just really gotten to know, like, you know, Drotty well, like, Sydney Gedebudai, Austin Dahlquist, Aidan Reed, Frank Lara, like, at the time, like, Parker Stinson, Sid Vaughn were on were on routes. And then I was actually, unfortunately, had, like, injured. This is 2022 now. Had a grade four sacral, so I actually was was cycling a a fair amount. But, no, I was like, yeah, like Richie's, you know, he's gotten people back from pretty big injuries before and, like, obviously, we're we're some of your best friends.
Charlies Lawrence:You run with us. Like, on probably half your easy days. It's like, dude, just join Roots like you're Sure. So ended up doing that, joining Roots twenty twenty two with them, basically, 2022 through mid twenty twenty three. And I wanted to honestly to take some stab at some Ultra stuff and, like, they're a pure marathon group and it just didn't quite align.
Charlies Lawrence:Sure. So that's what kinda made the official shift. Had done a little bit under Corey, like fifty k champs 2021. I was gonna do 50 k champ. Well, then pace Des in 2021 to her 50 k world record.
Charlies Lawrence:I'd honestly, I'd just kept her company. She she did everything. Sure. But, yeah, I was like, I'd if I'm gonna do it, like, I'm you know, at the time I was 28, it's like, dude, you gotta, like you'll I mean, as you know, like, there's only so much time in this sport. Like, you gotta Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:You gotta strike where you can. And, again, it's like, definitely still think I have untapped potential at the marathon. I don't know how much, but like, I know I can really hopefully be one of the best in the world that like rode ultra stuff. So it's like Sure. Stop.
Charlies Lawrence:Not wasting my time, but like time to like
Justin Metzler:Get just focus.
Charlies Lawrence:To go get in focus. Yeah. So that was so that was a hard transition. Yeah. It really sucked leaving those guys because those are some of my best friends and like, you know, it's a day like you got 10 guys that have all run basically two sixteen or faster.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. And it's just like, you know, like, don't don't run. It's a bloodbath sometimes at practice, it's like, it makes you better.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. So. And where are you at now with coaching, training? What's the plan?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. I've fortunately been able to find a really good mix. So, Des, bounced a ton of ideas off her, Plaz, and then if I have a honestly fueling question, they'll reach out to David Roach.
Justin Metzler:Okay.
Charlies Lawrence:Cool. Yeah. So, like, I mean, David's maybe and this is not like it's probably Desmond Plaza, you know, 45 and 45 or, you know, 40 And And 30, and then, you know, David just if I have random questions and someone who's, you know, close in town. Sure. But I'll pull basically a lot of, like, old plaza workouts even to, like, with Des being down in Florida and training for Boston, like, basically, you know, a week after my my 50 k this past week.
Charlies Lawrence:And I actually text her husband Ryan even more than Des. We just text dumb memes back back and forth and Triathlete. Ryan's a triathlete. He's he's a, like an Everman Jack, like, OG.
Justin Metzler:Oh, no. He's he's a fan. He's on the YouTube channel. Yeah. He might be watching.
Justin Metzler:Who knows?
Charlies Lawrence:Shout out Ryan. Yeah. So so yeah. So basically, just kind of those mix of of those three really. But even, like so going back to you know, I'd Ryan or text Des, like, yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:What was what was your workout? Or Ryan honestly, Ryan would text me like, he's like, made it through two thirds of Des's workout today. Was like, oh, what what did she do? So, oh, she did, you know, three two one or or three by three. I'm like, three by three fits fit fits in my plan, think.
Charlies Lawrence:So I'll I'll I'll do that next week, you know. So, and then just, you know, kinda picking her brain on on other sessions and stuff has been great. And obviously, you know, her she's been doing at the highest level for fifteen, twenty years. Sure. So and just being able to and one thing that's great about Des too, if, like, she's always willing to help with anything.
Charlies Lawrence:If if she knows you genuinely, like, give a shit, like, about your sport and care and wanted to, like, be better, she's always gonna help, like, anyone, which is which is great. So super super generous with her time because she doesn't like to to give out much of her time to anyone, truthfully. It's, like, her dogs and maybe Ryan.
Justin Metzler:So Yeah. That's cool. Training. Yeah. To have access to that, you know, marathon major winner and, you know, someone who's done it all and done ultra road stuff, and I think like that's a great mentor.
Justin Metzler:But for now, you're sort of like in this self coaching. Is it does the buck sort of fall with you? I think with these previous coaches sometimes like, you know, if you win together if you win, you win together. If you fail, you fail together. Is it all on your back now or is it with Des and Plaz, like, okay, if we have a success, we can all share it, and if we have a failure, we all share that as well?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. I mean, we're definitely like I mean, I I do the majority of my training, like, and here's here's what's great about and honestly, David too, because, like, again, I've I've only known David, like, I don't say well, but known David since kind of my friends Ali, Ostrander, and Spencer moved in because he coaches Ali. So like, again, even the last question I texted David was just about fueling for the 50 k, and I'm like, and I just worried. I'm like, yo, I just need someone to like I'm overthinking it, like, get me out of my head and tell me, like, what I need to do with this. Like, where should I take this caffeine gel?
Charlies Lawrence:Was literally the question, like, should I take it at bottle three or bottle two? And he gave me just super, you know, just David answer, like, here's why you should do it because of, you know, fat oxidation rates that are like Totally. I'm like done. Perfect. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:Whereas like with Plaz and Des, like if like, same thing though, they'll just like keep me out of my own way. Or if I'm overthinking something, like, Plaz would be like, that makes no sense. Why'd you do that? And kinda kinda same with Desert. She'll probably be like, maybe you could do this instead.
Charlies Lawrence:Sure. Think about it this way. So they basically, like, all just kinda keep me out of my, like, my own way.
Justin Metzler:So, yeah. That's cool. I wanna dive a little bit more into just, like, I think this whole world of professional running and especially ultra running is very obsessive about, from my perspective on the outside looking in, just the mileage component. So can you elaborate a little bit more to the audience who might be coming from triathlon, where, like, professional triathletes, you know, if you're running 100 ks or, like, 60 miles, that's high volume running for us. But it seems like the industry standard for professional running is, like, 100 miles, and if you're not running 100 miles, that's a bad week.
Justin Metzler:Is that true or is that just my perception?
Charlies Lawrence:It's a low key perception, but also too for me though, like, I feel like I need to, like, to get the most out of myself, I need to be like one thirty plus. Judging this past segment caught off an injury, I only got up to one twenty and it went pretty well. So it's probably mostly made up in my, like, in my mind. But, yeah, no. I like, for me personally, like, there's just a sweet spot.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, it's, like I said, one thirty, one 40. Like, I ran one sixty last fall and that was a flop. I got myself injured. Yeah. So it's like, it's finding that that fine line.
Charlies Lawrence:And truthfully, even in, like, marathon, if you can get, like, consistently, like, rack up six to eight weeks at a hundred, like, that's pretty good. But there's also people, you know, like Noah Drotty, two zero nine. He's cracked a hundred in his career, maybe five times, maybe. Sure. You know, like, it's just kind of fun in that sweet spot of, you know, volume intensity, mileage, and all that.
Charlies Lawrence:So Yeah. That's that's one to, like, you know, Noah ran great off off that training. For me, like, I just felt like I needed a little more than just pure mileage, you know? Sure.
Justin Metzler:And if you're doing, like let's say for example, you're in 120, one hundred and 30, one hundred and 40 mile week, how much of that plan and prescription is just about racking up the mileage versus like, okay, these are my key sessions. I'm trying to do three by three miles. I'm trying to do, you know, a hill rep session or whatever. Or is it just like, okay, I will, at the sacrifice of the quality, hit my one forty?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. I mean, for me, like, let's say let's just go way out what you said, like, one twenty? Yeah. Sure. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, at least 80 of that will be pretty easy mileage, like, everything over seven flat. Sure. And I'm trying to think, like, you know, like, for my long well, here's here's how I break up my training. So I basically do two week cycles, And I used to be a big fan of, like, the classic Tuesday, Friday, Sunday long run. And that's what I'll do to an extent.
Charlies Lawrence:Could do, like, a Tuesday tempo. Friday, pretty short and aggressive on the track. Come back Sunday steady, and my steady is 20 to 25 at sub six from mile one. Like, go hit it. But then that usually beats me up, like, pretty hard.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. And I've tried to come back on that next Tuesday, but it's like, I've just suffered. I've, like, had miserable sessions. You feel terrible. So then I usually come back and do, like, another track session Wednesday and another kind of marathon ish session Saturday, then then like a medium long that Sunday and reset to like Tuesday.
Charlies Lawrence:So but to, like, go back to your question, like, you know, that that balance, yeah, it's probably still, you know, mostly 80% easy, 75% easy. It just kinda depends on the week. Like, even when it is the Tuesday, Friday, like, most of the, like, hard really intensity is gonna be in that, like, long run. It's it'll be kinda shorter shorter sessions. Like, I mean, shorter, it'll still be, you know, eight or 10 k to, you know, 10 miles of volume, but it's relatively short compared to, like, the one big, you know, 25 mile day.
Charlies Lawrence:So kinda how how I break it down. And I'll and I'll shake out as well post long run to get typically 30 if it's 25 or Sure. 20, at least do another four or five to get to 25. So
Justin Metzler:How many days a week are you doubling in order to just get that? Is it
Charlies Lawrence:pretty much every day? Peak, like, every usually six days. It depends, like so I used to have this is not a not a shot at my massage therapist. He's he's one of my best friends. Used to have so shout out Marcus.
Charlies Lawrence:He used to be one of the well, I used to take Mondays, the afternoons off, I'd see Marcus every Monday, but then he got, like, with CU, their switch on days at CU and he works with their track team, basketball and such. So now, I see Marcus on Thursdays. So, like and usually, I'll either work out coming off Thursday, either Friday or that next Saturday. So I'll still usually probably go shake out, like, after I see Marcus down on a Thursday just to to get ready. So sometimes now it's just kinda flush some massage out.
Charlies Lawrence:Sometimes it'll be a little slightly lethargic or a little tired like the next day. But usually, like, peak margin, I'm one thirty five, one 40 just to hit it. Yeah. It's usually minimum six, mostly seven. So Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:Or if I'm or if I'm like, alright, I wanna hit like a really quality, like medium long run, I'll do like instead of doing 14 to four or 15 to five, I'll say, I'll go run like 18 straight up and take the afternoon to do some extra core or something.
Justin Metzler:Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that's it's just a totally different world. I mean, there's not that many people out there who can absorb that many runs a week because you're looking at 13 runs a week. Yeah. Right?
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's very impressive. I asked Drew Hunter this in the rapid fire section of the podcast. I asked him what the ideal shakeout or double pace is. Do you have a pace that you're like, oh, that's like the perfect pace?
Justin Metzler:Seven thirty. And distance. What's the perfect distance?
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, I mean, mine is always gonna be five, but like, I feel like, you know, four at seven thirty, 30 minutes, boom, box checked, you know? That's probably the perfect ideal, but for me it's like, alright, need some extra volume, so I'll usually go five or even this past segment. Was like, I didn't wanna like put too much load on like coming off my peroneal and Achilles injury.
Justin Metzler:Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:So I'd even double and do something like, you know, like eight and six, you know, days just like get a little more time. That would that be like forty five minutes? So that's Sure. I like the nice like seven thirty, like, basically a pretty, like, flat number, 30 even, 45 even. I guess it's probably the perfect ideal Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:For a shakeout or ideal shakeout.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. There's a million ways to skin a cat. Like, I'm a I'm a Joe Clecker fan. I'll see him sometimes do, like, eight and eight. Know what I mean?
Justin Metzler:He'll do his doubles eight and eight, and I'm like, man, it's interesting to just see, like, it's you know, Reed's always doing Reed Fisher's always doing three, four, and five mile doubles. You won't really see him doing an eight mile shakeout in the evenings. You know what I mean? But he'll go do 15 at six sub six pace in the morning, know, something solid like How much time are you putting in between the doubles? Are you making sure that there's a certain amount of hours in between?
Charlies Lawrence:Seven hours every time. Yeah. Refuse to go any less than seven hours unless it's like I have, like, an urgent, like, anniversary dinner reservation then I'll shift it. But otherwise, no, it's seven hours. So it's like, if I start my run at 07:30 and I run for ninety minutes, and at 9AM, it's like, cool.
Charlies Lawrence:Seven hours after that is 5PM. So that's when I'll what it would be, start activation at probably 04:15, and I'm literally like, you know, clicking my watch at five just like, I'll wait till a little like, I'm a little like neurotic in that sense, like, I gotta wait till I see like 5PM, then I'll go. Sure.
Justin Metzler:Walk me through like a normal training day where you're gonna do fifteen and five. It's not necessarily a key day but you're just like getting volume in. Like, what does that day look like in terms of, like, what you're eating, pre run activations, all that.
Charlies Lawrence:Yep. So usually so let's say it's, like, a night honestly, like, a day like today. I'm not not doubling today, but it'd be, alarm. And usually, I'm up before my alarm, but alarm will be at like 05:45, five fifty. And usually, like, rolling around up before it all, just wait till it hits and then get up.
Charlies Lawrence:Then I'll be right away, go downstairs, turn on my my kettle, start grinding my beans. I'm I make a pour over every morning, gotta do it. Even when I travel to races, I bring my hand grinder, my scale, little like water kettle to like
Justin Metzler:I'm the same. I got my AeroPress everywhere I go, no matter where I go.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Like, I can't can't sand shitty coffee.
Justin Metzler:Me too.
Charlies Lawrence:So I'll make that just like my also, I'll I'll I don't charge my phone at night. I'll I plug it in, like, right then in the morning, and then, like, then I'm just going about my morning routine. Like, I don't want any distractions, like, just make my pour over. That's, like, meditative. I like that.
Justin Metzler:I like that. Don't charge the phone in the evening.
Charlies Lawrence:Yep. I like that. Unless it's, like, at, like, zero and could die overnight, like Yeah. Then maybe I'll I'll charge it like overnight, but otherwise, like, don't want it with me in the morning.
Justin Metzler:Okay. Cool. So like I'm gonna take that. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:It's like, dude, it's just work because then you just Yeah. No distractions. So of course, like, know, I have all my emails on on my phone too. Like For sure. As soon as you get an email, if it's garbage, it's deleted, if it's urgent, like, reply to it.
Charlies Lawrence:Yep. So I'll make my pour over. Do that. I have at this point now, like, I'll do I have red light, so I'll throw that on my Achilles. Yep.
Charlies Lawrence:I just classic, like, if it's just an easy day, I'll do, like bagel, nut butter, cream toni drizzled on top, just eat that, sip my coffee, red light's just for ten minutes, usually I'm done with breakfast for that. So, dude, like, also I'm a, like, a neat freak, so I'll, like, hand wash my dishes, set it like everything's, like, set back to where it was in the morning. Then I'll go, like, go brush my teeth. I can get a little stubble in the morning, so I'll shave real quick. And then, yeah, I'll go about just my my activations.
Charlies Lawrence:That's, you know, start at my feet, roll my feet out, stretch my calves, do isometrics for my calves, then just do normal toe ups with my calves, 15. Then I'll go, like, especially into my bad one, I'll do extra. Probably another, like, thirty, forty five second ISO. Yeah. Foam rolling everything, calves, hammies, glutes, lower back, flip over, get my quads, floss them.
Charlies Lawrence:Then I'll go into just kind of a band activation routine. And I'll do into, like, basically, after that, like, quad stretch, couch stretch, stretch my glutes. I'll do like an assisted adductor stretch. I'll do like a band against the wall, squeeze my glute, open open the hips up more. Then I'll go into a basically kettlebell routine for my calf.
Charlies Lawrence:Then I'll go into basically monster walks, donkey kicks, banded, all that. Anyhow, it takes about thirty five minutes. And then I'll go change, throw my like, because I'm usually just running, like, you know, like stuff that I slept in. Throw my running stuff, change, throw on ChapStick, and whether it's like, if I'm going to, like, Geneva or Tom Watson, go run, come back. Religiously, we'll make my smoothie.
Charlies Lawrence:It's basically the same thing every day. It's almond milk, frozen banana, makes it a little frothier. Blueberries, spinach, two scoops of whey protein, typically vanilla, collagen, sometimes creatine. So and that usually, like, it's pretty light, but, like, it holds me over, like, just through, like, through, like, core and stuff. Just then I'm, if I hesitate, check again, like, I'm not checking my phone at all.
Charlies Lawrence:Because as soon as I check it, like, I'm online and it's just game over. So that'll be I'll go through, you know, do my ancillary work, like, my band work. Sometimes roll a little more, use another fifteen minutes of just, like, rolling if there's, like, something I felt a little tighter on the run, like my quad, like, I'll make sure, like, I hit that a little bit, whether it's, like, with a gun or foam roller or stretch it. Yeah. It usually takes, like I said, ten, fifteen, maybe twenty minutes if I really feel ambitious with core.
Charlies Lawrence:But I just do I do five minutes core every day just a minimum just to, like, just to kinda say I did it, check that box. You know, go go about my day. And usually if I'm still hungry, I'll honestly just go have, like, whether it's a Morton bar or something else. But usually that smoothie is, like, it gets pretty thick with the banana and so it just kinda holds me over again. It's, like, pretty light.
Charlies Lawrence:So I know I need more calories at some point during the day, but I'll honestly just go chill out. Like, when I'm in peak training, I'll go watch YouTube or send emails in my altitude tent, mid morning, and then I'll go have lunch. It's this basically the same thing every day. It's a tuna, cranberry apple tuna, like, salad from Whole Foods. Throw that in a tortilla with an apple, and then use just some extra form of carbs whether it's like a a Bobo bar, another Morton bar, something like that.
Charlies Lawrence:If have like a sweet tooth almost, do like more bread and nut butter with a lot of drizzled honey on it. Sure. Usually go chill back in the L2 tend again for the next couple hours. And then, yeah, start activation for my second run. And I'll do basically the exact same routine, slightly abbreviated.
Charlies Lawrence:If like, if everything feels like still pretty fluid and moving, like, I'll do still foam rolling, do all the band work. Might not do quite as much calf work because it's kind of had the day to warm up and stuff, but I'll still do, you know, enough, like, enough toe ups, enough, like, ice mesh to make sure it's good. Still do, like, classic donkey kicks and, the, like, hip circles and all that. Go shake out quickly, like, roll out and stuff right after. Then usually, like, just trying to figure out what I'm making for dinner.
Charlies Lawrence:So And then usually dinner's pretty big. I mean, like, a lot like, definitely a lot of extra calories. And I'll have a protein shake right after I finish that second round too, just a quick one. Sure. Like, just a quick, like, whey protein shake.
Charlies Lawrence:I'll throw a beta alanine in there as well. Yeah. Then go do my ancillary work, then basically figure out dinner. Sometimes I'll just start cooking even before I shower and, like, if I can throw stuff in the oven, like, then go shower real quick.
Justin Metzler:For sure.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Then means you're just pretty lazy, like, after dinner. Like, for me, like, I'm I'm a simple guy with dinner. It's like, just give me a protein, give me a veggie, give me a lot of carbs, like Yeah. Box checked.
Charlies Lawrence:So, like, even this like, even my my whole food strip today was, like, I need salmon, need a miso, I need more white rice, and I'm, I'll need a veggie, so I grab green beans. So, like Easy. Boom. Box checked. And then I'm usually getting pretty hungry, like, before bed still, so I'll do, like, yogurt with granola or honestly, like, another, like, protein shake if that sounds good or, like, throw some, like, chocolate electrolytes with that and, like, microwave it heated up into, a, like, protein hot chocolate, something like that.
Charlies Lawrence:Sure. That's literally just basically, every single day, that's what I do.
Justin Metzler:Do you struggle as you kind of progress through the mileage? Like, you're gonna start at a hundred, then get one ten, one 20, one 30, like, just keeping the fuel in if the days are gonna be relatively similar? I guess, like, that routine is probably set to allow you to be able to perform on that double. Right? If you're changing it every day, then you might be like, oh, my stomach's bothering me in the evenings or whatever.
Justin Metzler:If you keep it the same, then you know exactly what you're getting and you're gonna be able to knock out those doubles. But as you increase running an extra ten, twenty, 30 miles a week, are you worried about getting in those extra calories and not getting too lean and getting issues that come along with under fueling?
Charlies Lawrence:Yes. And, like, if that's the case, like, think I definitely hit my protein goals. For me, it's like, can I make sure my stomach can handle the the carb? So, like, that's a good point. Like, when I like, I'm in heavy mileage, like, really the one thirty, one 40, like, I'll also like, when I'm driving with Tom Watson, Neva, or even just, like, if I know I'm gonna need an extra, like, this might be a hard 15 miles I'm tired from day four, I'll have, like, an extra serving of, like, 25 grams of carbs and just, like, you know, in a bottle, shake it, rip it with breakfast Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:Or or drive it out to Tom Watson and even, say this too, I forgot to mention this, but I'll have, like, really big days. I'll have, like, a ketone shot at, like, after every run, just, like, stimulate recovery, like, natural EPO production. Then also, like, be sipping those liquid carbs right away right after, like, this morning, just to make sure I'm, like, still recovering from from the 50 k. That's what I've been doing, like, this morning. Only ran eight miles, but it's, just make sure the legs are still coming around a ketone shot, and I just had, like, carbs I was sipping in a bottle, and I just ripped it, so probably an extra 20 grams of carbs, like, right there.
Charlies Lawrence:So Sure. That's one thing too. Even when I get into in the big sessions, like, I'm fueling them pretty heavily. Like, I'll throw an extra, like, even 50 grams of carbs in a bottle with breakfast, rip that at breakfast, and I'm sipping it throughout the morning. Obviously, like, ripping a probably 40 gram gel right before the start and every three to four miles, and ripping another 40 grams of carbs, whether it's liquid, or even 50 if it's liquid, or 40 if it's a gel, so, I definitely definitely feel the work I do, so.
Charlies Lawrence:That's cool, man.
Justin Metzler:Sponsor of today's episode is Lever Movement. This is a really cool product. It allows you to get some body weight support on any treadmill. You pretty much put this device on there, you put on a pair of shorts, and you use a cord to be able to take off up to 40 pounds of body weight. So many of you know I had Achilles tendon surgery surgery recently, and I've been using the lever over the course of the last 40 runs to work up to the point where I was able to run an hour on land today, so that was a big milestone for me.
Justin Metzler:Additionally, I've realized over the course of that process how important this could be for keeping me healthy and getting in some speed work without that pounding on the road, so I'm definitely gonna be using the lever over the course of the next months and years as I continue to get back fit, healthy, and ready to race. So if you're interested in trying a lever for yourself, head on over to levermovement.com and use code endurancematters20 for 20% off all devices. One thing I wanted to touch in on was a little bit about the life of a professional athlete in, like, outside of the training. Because I think a lot of people from the outside looking in think it's really glamorous. Oh, you have these contracts, you have these sponsors, but, like, the majority of professional athletes aren't they they don't have huge contracts that allow them to just, for us, swim, bike, run every day or just run every day.
Justin Metzler:Like, you know, when you first came into professional running and you were working and as you've transitioned to Boulder, like, have you had to have, like, supplementary jobs and things to keep yourself afloat?
Charlies Lawrence:I've been fortunate. Not really. Shout out to shout out to my partners. Cool. Right when I came here though, just because I hadn't really had anything lined up, I reached out to a buddy who started a tech company, and they were basically trying to grow their their territory and expand kind of west.
Charlies Lawrence:And I'm like, I think I can help here. Like, I have a sales background, nothing in tech, but it was it was a tech startup. So I worked in in tech sales for, like, super, super like, they're also my I'll say this. They were my teammate. He was a fifth year, my freshman in Minnesota.
Charlies Lawrence:So they took great care of me. Like, I, you know, gave me it was a sales job, so I had, you know, like it was just a 30 base, but then 10% commission on all your sales. So it's like, most of the sales are 50 k plus. Wow. So you close a few of those, like, few of those a month, like, you're doing just fine.
Charlies Lawrence:And for me, was like like, Charlie, if you can just close, you know, one or two a month, like, we'll leave you alone. That's basically what it was. So it's It's amazing. It is a good gig. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Are you still doing that at all or that's that you moved on?
Charlies Lawrence:No. I moved on. I was like, you know, once I kind of started trending upward after I like because I had a couple, like, rough years here in Boulder, like, just kind of, like, struggling to adjust. I never trained at altitude before, so that was honestly just kind of a, like, you just can't run the pace you can at sea level. So kind of figuring, you know, how my body works at altitude was was something.
Charlies Lawrence:And, once I started kind of getting other, like, contracts, I was like, I don't like, sorry guys, I don't necessarily need this. Like, I'd love to happy to help and, like, would come back one day, if that's an option. But, like, I'm I'm doing well enough where I can fortunately just focus on on running, which is which is great. Know, it
Justin Metzler:was That's amazing.
Charlies Lawrence:You know, I mean, it wasn't like definitely took a pay cut, like, you know, leaving tech sales to to go that, but it's like, now I'm I'm making, fortunately, making fair amount more, which which is, you know, fortunate to say it's hard to make money in the sport. Know?
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Very hard. And it seems as though from, you know, the outside looking in, you'd spend a lot of time focusing on, like, having a really solid social media. You're planning in term you're planning your, I guess, post maybe and ensuring that the sponsors that you have, you're giving them shout outs and getting those deliverables met. Does your sports management background help you in that?
Justin Metzler:And how are you thinking about, like, pitching to new sponsors what you have to offer?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. I mean, a %. Like, I I'm I don't have an agent. I represent myself, which is nice. I get to basically keep an extra 15%.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, taxes takes that anyway, but but I mean, you get it. So Yeah. I mean, it helps a ton, right? Just having I don't wanna say of, like, I don't have a massive following, but it's like a pretty, like, niche following and they are mostly diehard ultra marathon fans. So, like so they majority of them love some I mean, I got some Trolls.
Charlies Lawrence:We we all got them.
Justin Metzler:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:But, yeah. No. Like, for me, it's just all about putting out high quality stuff. Obviously, giving, like, my sponsors, like, the appropriate shout outs. And, obviously, just, doing the like, the best of your ability and, like, telling your story is probably the biggest thing that they wanna see.
Charlies Lawrence:And even if you quote unquote fail or or don't hear your goal, as long as you're telling the story and being authentic and kind of growing that way, like, they they appreciate that. So, yeah, it's been fortunate, you know, again, just, you know, hopefully other partners down the road, you know, see see value in that, telling the story. And honestly for me, it's been trying to put out high quality content and shout out, you know, guys like Kenny Sure. You know, do, you know, help me immensely with with that stuff. So Yeah.
Justin Metzler:How much have you had to work on going out to partners and saying, hey, here's who I am and here's what I do and here's what ultra road is and here's why you should pay attention to it versus just doing a good job on social media, getting good race results and letting them come to you?
Charlies Lawrence:About half and half truthfully. Like, I'm fortunate now I'm at the point where, like, I've had them come to me. But initially with, like, for example, Stride, one of my partners, I actually reached out to them to help me figure out a shoe last fall because I was in between two two shoes at the time. Like, actually, like, we could tell a story with this. What do you think?
Charlies Lawrence:And honestly, just organically grew into, hey, like, we can tell, like, a long story about, like, you and your goals and, like, you've we think of personality in the sport. So, something we want to kind of, like, leverage and use and, like, you enjoy talking, like, you're, confident in yourself and that's marketable. Sure. So it's yeah, probably, you know, fifty fifty. But like don't run, there's still brands that I've I've pitched and they've just hit me with like, you know, or even just over Instagram or you try to get get an email from someone and like they can't give it to it's like, alright, I guess I'll just, you know, DM your social media manager and see if I can get anything.
Charlies Lawrence:And you know, I get people like, oh, we have ambassador programs if you're interested in that. And I'm just like, I'll just like, I just like, I just like won't reply. I'm like, alright, Cool.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. The worst is when you kind of you feel like you have the right contact and you get there and you give them a good pitch and you're like, here's what we can do. Here's what we've done. Here's why we think we'd be a great, you know, match. And they're like, we can give you x product or x discount.
Justin Metzler:You're like, I don't think we're on the same page.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Yeah. No. And that's the thing too where, you know, like any like, don't be wrong. Any free product is great.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, it saves us money. Like, but we gotta make money in the sport. For sure. So like Yeah. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:So, I mean, like, I have a minimum, like, per month and if it's you're not meeting that, like, I refuse to take it. Like, I've kinda messed up and gave a brand a discount last year and they tried to resign me for that this year and I'm like, I'm not you got me the discount last year, you're not getting it this year. Yeah. So and you just got to like, I'd rather for me personally, I'd rather not have
Justin Metzler:a deal than have a shit deal. %. So And I think that's really important. I speak about this with other triathletes, you know, off camera, and then I've spoken to a couple runners and and triathletes and cyclists on camera. We had a really good conversation with Alexei Vermeulen about this, who's a professional gravel cyclist.
Justin Metzler:Whereas if you take a shitty contract, that devalues all the other ultra road guys. And if you go out there and have a great race, then it's hard for you to, you know, ask for more if there's someone else who has an equal or slightly less better result and they take 25% of what you're demanding.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. I'm So yeah. And not trying to come off as that guy, but, like, you know, like, have a world record. There's not many of those in any sport. For sure.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, I I take a terrible contract. What does that do to the market? Like Absolutely. And I have had some pretty tear like, not terrible offers. Like, anytime you get an offer, you you're low key kinda grateful, but it's like, I can't take 25 k, man.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, is this a joke? Like
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Does that do those when the offers come in and they're lowball offers or they are those ambassadorships, do those do you take those personally or do you just like, alright, that person didn't get what I'm trying to do at all or what this is at all and you just move on.
Charlies Lawrence:Especially the masterships, alright, they clearly aren't in the business you are. You know, like I was with a I was with a brand a couple years ago, a nutrition brand, and they just like they just signed all influencers out after I left. And it's like, I just, you know, I'm not an influencer, like
Justin Metzler:For sure.
Charlies Lawrence:You know, I'm doing wrong. I try to put up quality content and tell my story and like, yeah, have a YouTube channel now, but that's not my focus whatsoever. It's trying to win races and at this point break world record. That's all I care about. So if, like, if you don't necessarily, like, align with that, then it's just not gonna work, you know?
Charlies Lawrence:So Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I like that. I like that sort of like commitment to who you are and what you are. And I think that the right brands will latch onto that and the wrong ones aren't gonna be the right fits. And you don't wanna be in that middle ground of like, getting with the companies who don't get it all the way.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. And and I've made that mistake in the past just because it was like, okay. It's like, you know, it's it's money. So like
Justin Metzler:It's hard to turn down money. Right? Like, you know, we're all out here trying to grind. You know? It's it's it's hard when, you know, you can only do how many 50Ks or 100 mile races can you do in a year.
Justin Metzler:Like, can't do that many, you know what I mean? And if there's prize money attached or whatever, it's very difficult to make a living based off just prize money alone. So you need to get those contracts that make it make sense. Yeah. You know?
Justin Metzler:The math's got a math. Yeah. I wanna circle back a little bit to this ultra road that you've focused on. I wanna understand more, and I think the listeners will appreciate understanding more about, like, how niche is it, how much is it growing, and how does it compare to ultra trail running, which seems to be popping off quite a bit right now.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. We're we're a step behind for like to answer that that part first, like we're 100% behind ultra trail. Like ultra trail in my opinion is like picking up steam right now. It's obviously, it's not it's not road running. Like, the marathon's, like, is the sexy event, you know, like, again, Boston was this morning.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:Totally. The hype around it was absurd as it should be. It's it's a marathon.
Justin Metzler:Yep.
Charlies Lawrence:But it's it's fairly niche, but it's growing in truth. Like, I'm wanna be that dude to help grow it. At least that's what I'm trying to do. And hopefully just getting more eyes on it and like, again, being genuinely who I am, which is, you know, I'm just confident in the work I do and, like, confident in myself. And, again, that rubs some people the wrong way, but hopefully it's still no matter what it's doing, getting people to pay attention.
Charlies Lawrence:So that's that's really kind of the the goal with it in in Ultra. Yeah. I mean, I first kind of dipped my toes in it. Well, again, when I paced Des, I'm like, oh, there's actually like, if Des thinks this is cool, like or there's, like, some potential here, it's like, there's probably some like, Des is smart. Like, she's super, super savvy.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, look what what she's done with her career. You know? Yeah. It's like, alright, like, Desi's gonna go get get this world record, like, maybe there's like, I can take advantage of this where it's not necessarily quite as competitive as as the road ultra scene, or as, excuse me, as the road marathon scene, but it's like, we could make it competitive and make it fun and like by go going chasing the record, doing stuff that people haven't done it at this at these distances because it's relatively untapped to an extent, you know? So that's kind of just where where my head is at Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:With it.
Justin Metzler:Do you foresee any of the guys like Jim Walmsley coming over to a 50 k road or 50 mile road race and challenging you and some of the other top road guys?
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, they should. I mean, like, I mean, this is not a shot at Jim. Jim's one of the greatest of all time, but I took his 50 mile world record, you know? And he has the hundred k American record, like, better believe, like, I'd want that pretty badly. You know?
Charlies Lawrence:But, no, I I think that's one that's kinda cool in this past, you know, fifty k championship where most years, like, when I first ran in 2021, I forgot the gentleman who won it. He was a mostly a a trail guy. He came over the roads and honestly just ran away from us because we didn't really we thought it was just some guy taking off and, like, no, he had the legs. He's run, you know, hundred k's, hundred miles. Like, he's got the engine.
Charlies Lawrence:Then it was just basically myself. I'd run two sixteen at the time, not for a few years. Fernando Kubota, who was, you know, a little old in sport at that time, but he's around two eleven, but again, like, kinda made the shift up. And then Kyle Masterson, who was another kind of, like, two eighteen marathoner qualified for for the trials, but that was really it, you know, at at this US championship because of three solid marathoners. This past one, we had eight guys that qualified for the trials, don't quote me.
Charlies Lawrence:And then even, my teammate who's well, he was my teammate on the hundred k team this past, winter, John Judge, like, he's, you know, hundred k guy, like, finishes tenth, you know, and he's kind of world class at the hundred k. So, like Sure. It's definitely getting the depth and growing, so that's exciting. But, again, too, it's like it'd be cool to honestly have have Jim or even, like, other marathoners, you know, come up. You know, there's tons of I don't wanna say threads.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, I don't I don't read them truthfully. Like, I know you guys have, was it slow twitch? Or
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Slow twitch is the triathlete one.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. We we got less run. I don't I don't indulge in that. But, you know, there's, you know, Charlie Lawrence versus Connor Mance, and it's just, you know, it's like, you're Charlie Lawrence versus Jakob, and it's like, I like my chance against Jakob in a 50 mile, but Mantz wants to come up, like, Mantz could probably throw down on me, you know? Mean, you saw what he
Justin Metzler:Yeah, Mantz is a monster.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. But here's the thing, like, Mantz doesn't need to Mantz doesn't need to go up. Like, Mantz is doing just fine at the marathon.
Justin Metzler:He's chilling. Yeah. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:But for me though, it's like, cool. A two sixteen is only gonna get me so much. Like, you know, where like, what's that? It'll won't get me into I'll never make an Olympic team. I'd love to say I could make an Olympic team.
Charlies Lawrence:I just won't, running, like, running that time. Even run two thirteen, two 12, PR by three, four minutes.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Mance ran two zero five at Boston today. Yeah. Him and Clayton. Know, Clayton was seventh this morning, you know?
Justin Metzler:And so those are two guys alone who are, yeah, sub two ten guys. But anyways, that's not that's an aside. I think I'm curious to hear about what about the other way? What about you going over to a UTMB? Are you going over to a Leadville?
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, you'll you'll laugh at this. So I'm actually on the start list for Canyons, next week There we go. When when I'm not doing it. Okay. No.
Justin Metzler:So So the the thought was implanted there somewhere.
Charlies Lawrence:The thought that was in my head because I thought I had a decent contract lined up for it. Okay. Almost sold out to the trails, but I'm like, I'm not doing it. So and that's one that's right about my Adidas deal now. It's all road focused.
Charlies Lawrence:Cool. So it's all it's all, like, basically, like, comrades, world records, world titles. That's basically the only focus. Like Yeah. I didn't get a bonus for for 50 k.
Charlies Lawrence:Nice. Like, it's it's a national championship. Like, don't me wrong, it's great. It's my first one. Soak with it.
Charlies Lawrence:But they're like, no. Like, we're going for we're going for it all here. Big dogs. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's cool. I mean, did it feel really validating for you personally and for your sport to get a contract from Adidas who's valuing this ultra road
Charlies Lawrence:scene? Oh, yeah. I mean, I hope like, hopefully, it's kind of the first, like, domino to fall, like, I would love to see you know, Nike kinda used to invest in it, like, with Camille Herron and stuff who has several world records on the road. You know, like, Camille was, like tearing it up. So, like, they invested in her, but it'd be cool to see other brands going and, like, try to get other guys that can hopefully compete against me at these distances and make it a little more exciting because it would be fun, you know, going back to like Mance and those guys, not necessarily those guys, but like other people that aren't necessarily gonna be contended for Olympic teams.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, oh, like maybe I can like throw down a 50 k. Like, it's basically the same exact training. I mean, like, in my opinion, Marathon 50 k's only eight k more judging. It's like Sure. It's a little different, but like you can essentially copy and paste the Marathon block to a 50 k block.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. So, like, I mean, it'd cool to see Zig get a little more, like, a little deeper in that regard. And I think that's kind of where Trail's a little ahead of us where you started to see, like, Hayden Hawks or, like, Jim. Like, those guys kinda went to Trails kind of right away, you know, post collegiately, and they're some of the best in the world. Sure.
Charlies Lawrence:Whereas, like, it'll be cool to see guys come out of college and be like you're like, yeah, there's the you know, or a lot of guys come out college will go to the track right away. They go to the marathon. It'd cool if they're like, marathon, like, yeah, I can be probably pretty good, but it's like or I could go try to throw down and win a global medal at 50 k or, you know, go chase records at this distance. So I think that's where trail's a little ahead of us and hopefully we're, you know, gradually catching up. And again, I think with, you know, Adidas, like, their I mean, name I mean, besides Nike name, like, a more powerful sports brand company in the world.
Charlies Lawrence:You know? Hard to beat. Yeah. It's and have them, like, investing in me and, like, trying to, again, go get these records and and world titles and Comrades wins. Like, it's it's So, yeah, hopefully others follow.
Justin Metzler:I'd love to see you at Comrades. Yeah, that'd be that'd be sick for us. Maybe we'll have to come to go back down to South Africa.
Charlies Lawrence:Next year, bro.
Justin Metzler:Dual trip. Let's do it.
Charlies Lawrence:Up year, bro. Up year too, so I'm I'm excited. I I was actually supposed to do it this year, but it wasn't gonna be with a a Nike Nedbank team. So, obviously Okay. Not with Adidas.
Charlies Lawrence:That's not happening. So No. It was a obviously, building stuff for for next year with them.
Justin Metzler:So That's amazing. Do you foresee with the injection now, if this is the first domino to fall, typically with the injection of money, that does get more players in. It gets those East African runners coming in. It gets people coming from collegiate directly to 50 k. What do you feel like you need to do if the cream rises and everything gets a little bit quicker?
Justin Metzler:Triathlon's going through that right now. You saw the injection of the PTO, you saw the injection of Ironman Pro series, everything's getting faster, everyone's getting better. The same thing likely will happen for ultra road running in the next three, four, five, ten years. What do you plan
Charlies Lawrence:to do to help elevate? I mean, for me, it's just like getting the most out of myself and hopefully that is, like I said, the world records, the Comrades titles. Again, these are just like, only have like, don't be wrong, like, have one. It was fucking hard to get. Like, I went to the deepest well I've ever been in my life to go get that.
Charlies Lawrence:So that takes massive efforts and it's not easy. Yeah. But for me, it's like going and trying to do that and it's like, hopefully, again, it gets more eyes doing that and then you get the guys coming out earlier to do ultras and grow it and like, it's cool. Like, remember last year even at Tunnel Hill where I broke it. Steve Durbin, the racetrack, was like, they're they said they're going for a record and like, they're on pace through 25 miles.
Charlies Lawrence:I'm like, Steve, that's like the course gets hard after 25, like, you know, this means nothing to me. But it's cool that like people are like, yo, I wanna go get Charlie Lawrence's record and hopefully that just like keeps going, like hopefully people keep chasing it, hopefully I'll lower it too. And yeah, like, you know, it just keeps pushing each other forward as more people come into it and hopefully gets, you know, more attention on it. Sure. I'm curious as well to hear a
Justin Metzler:little bit about just, you know, you mentioned your meticulous prehab routine. I think like in order to find that extra layer, some of it comes from just like years of consistent aerobic conditioning, which you've had, right? Like you got into your first running event in second grade, you've been running at a high level all the way since. But at least from my experience and the people that I've spoken to on the podcast, the heart and the lungs, they get stronger, the body starts to deteriorate a little bit. Do you have anything that you're worried about from that sense in the future?
Justin Metzler:And what are you doing to maybe bulletproof your body to have that follow the strength that you might have aerobically?
Charlies Lawrence:Honestly, just being super super intentional in the gym. And honestly, for me, just eating this is a this is a David tidbit. Like, do more downhill runs. Mhmm. Do some intentional, like like, have someone drive you to Gold Hill and storm your way down to, like, to to beat your quads up a little more.
Charlies Lawrence:Because you can only do so much, you know, on the farm roads and all that. It's like, where can you act pull these extra, like, percentage points? And, yeah, going back to like, I was out like, I always lifted a lot even in high school. Came from, like in, like because my dad wasn't the track coach when I was there, so it was but it was still a football coach. Was the head coach.
Charlies Lawrence:So it's, they were big on just, you know, clean and jerk, just standard back squats, but also, box jumps and just, like, being just be just be an athlete in the gym. Sure. So so I've always done gym stuff even through college. Like, Plaz, he was he had his own gym routine that he'd give us, but then I was they also like, track guy, I saw a different guy. I'm like, yo, can I actually go see like Cal and do his program just to get a little more explosive in power and just, like, be more bulletproof essential essentially?
Charlies Lawrence:So for me, like, you know, I kind of just pulled what worked for me in high school, what worked for me in college, and did that basically because at Hansen's, you could kinda do your own thing. Like, Nathan actually helped me with my strength a little bit at Hansen's because he was my teammate for basically through 2020. He's also another small resource who I hate to bother, but sometimes there's questions that I know he'll know the answer to. So but try not to bother Nathan. He's he's busy with with everyone else at OAC.
Charlies Lawrence:Yep. Yeah. So for me, it's just like especially this, like, last coming off, like, my big injury in 2022, my Achilles and labrum, obviously, all the activation stuff, but it's like I don't say I got lazy in the gym last fall. It was just like I was I got to a 60 miles a week and it's just like, you know, I'm going to the gym twice a week and it's just like, how intentional am I am I being? It's like, yeah, like, I got a trap bar, like, have all that.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, basically everything I need but it's just like, I'm just going through the motion, man. Just like trying to pick it up, set it down, like so that's why, like, I called Tristan because he's going through he's a certified strength coach, but he's going through his master's at Pitt right now to Michigan Sports Physiology. I'm like, yo, Tee, like, you're trying to add to, like, to your coaching? Like, add to your roster of athletes because I just wanna be more intentional with it. And so, like, every week we sync up, he writes me new training, every every Sunday, like, Wes, I woke up to an email from Tristan this morning just of, like, this week's lifts.
Charlies Lawrence:Sure. And it's just like, go in there, check the box, get it done, and be intentional with it. So that's probably my biggest thing to kind of fight off any sort of like aging and breakdown just like obviously, like, again, like religious with the activation and then also just be religious like getting in the gym, because that's, you know, again, the the miles, like, I have the aerobic base. It's like and my legs are, you know, fairly strong. You know, obviously, like, the first thing to fatigue in any marathon for me or even like ultra is gonna be my quads, so it's also just kind of calisthenos.
Charlies Lawrence:That's why I brought the the downhill running, kind of the David tidbit. But just being like super super intentional for me at least to answer a question like in the gym and really doing that because like this week will be, yeah, three lifts. So which is, you know, before was two solid lifts, so basically the, you know, the same variation of it. This is basically three different lifts, all super intentional. Working but working similar, you know, similar, you know, muscles and such.
Justin Metzler:Sure. That's the number one thing that I tell my coached athletes is like intention is what separates the professional athlete from everyone else. It's just I think like a lot of people can go do twenty hours of training, twenty five hours of training, run a hundred miles or whatever, but it's like, what did you do with those and how much did you focus on extracting as much as you could out of the run? You know what I mean? Yeah.
Justin Metzler:It's those little pieces of, okay, I'm gonna hit this downhill hard. I'm gonna do my strides really well. I'm gonna do my plyos once a week. Like, all that stuff I think is those are the extra little one percenters and the marginal gains that sort of separate, like, yeah, the the every man from professional athlete, you And I think the difficulty is just the consistency with that because it is so mundane, it is so repetitive, but I think, like, if you can embrace that process and sort of, like, make that find the joy in that every day, like, that's where the goal is, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Justin Metzler:That's what's gotten you to be where you are and why you're so successful, you know? So it's cool.
Charlies Lawrence:That's the too, like, just the joint, dude. Like, I'm getting What are we getting paid to, like, simplest form, like, workout and do a sport that I love? Like,
Justin Metzler:it's %.
Charlies Lawrence:Dude, it's like, it's a hobby that, like And here's here's the one thing that's going back to sponsors and stuff. It's like, here's here's what makes it hard for us too. It's like they know and actually Drew said this in one of his like first articles. It's like, most of our sponsors know we'd we'd probably do our sport for free. So, like Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:You know, like like I love this shit, man. So it's like, you know, it's like there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. It's like, and I get paid to go hit the gym or go run 15 to five, you know, like that's like there's there's a ton of joy in that at least for me. Again, it's it's boring, it's simple, but it like it's monotonous, gets the job done though. So Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:And that's
Justin Metzler:I mean, that's why we do it, you know, for the for the love of the game.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Exactly.
Justin Metzler:Alright, man. Well, this has been so insightful. I feel like I've learned a lot about you and about, you know, Road Ultra and that world. Before we wrap up the podcast today, I got, six rapid fire questions.
Charlies Lawrence:I got a hefty bet on these than I did the icebreaker.
Justin Metzler:Okay. Alright. Number one, what is the worst carbon plated running shoe on the market?
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, God. I I know the owner, I hate it. I think a Tre Yu.
Justin Metzler:I I don't even know what that is. I've never even heard of that, but I know you've worn a lot of carbon running shoes. I know you've, like, tried them all, so I think you'd be a good person
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. So to ask about. Sorry, bro. I apologize.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Well, you know what? That this is their opportunity to make a better one.
Charlies Lawrence:Exactly. You know? Exactly. All
Justin Metzler:right. Best training partner you've ever had. Oh, God.
Charlies Lawrence:I'm gonna go back to college. Shout out my guy, Connor Olson. So total grinder. Connor was fourth at Nike Cross Nationals as a sophomore. All blue tennis are freshmen.
Charlies Lawrence:Unfortunately, I had some health issues come up at the end of college. But, yeah, saw him last weekend. He on Madison. So but, yeah, it was like in the summer, it's like we're gonna meet at the golf course, like pre this is no. I'm just it's rapid fire, but I'm taking a But we would so we hosted Big Ten's my fourth year, Big Ten Cross.
Charlies Lawrence:So this is literally four days a week in the summer. We'd meet at Les Bolstad, the golf course. 6AM, run the course, like, every morning and, like, we do you know, it's eight k, we'd run it twice, basically, every morning, 10 miles. And Conor would be, like, in the group chat, first guy, like, to reply, yep, I'll be there every time. Didn't miss it.
Charlies Lawrence:And we just synced up super, super well, both pretty aerobic guys. So, like, any tempo, any long run-in college, it's like, you get us, like, we're gonna get ahead of steam and probably just run away from everyone. Yeah. One of my best friends this day too, so, easily my probably my best training partner I've ever had.
Justin Metzler:That's the key to a good training partner. They need to be on time, they need to not flake on you, they need to be similar in ability, and they just need to be one of the homies. Yeah. That's those are the three.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. No, yeah, yeah. He's a total real one.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Okay, cool. F, Mary, Kill. And this is for you, okay? Okay.
Justin Metzler:1,500 on the track, five k on the road, or a 10 k on the track.
Charlies Lawrence:Fuck the five k. That's hard. Well, no. No. No.
Charlies Lawrence:Oh, actually, kill the five k. Kill the five k. That's what I meant by that. Kill the five k. Marry the 15.
Charlies Lawrence:Like, that's a it's just a sexy like I agree. You you love the 15. Yeah. And
Justin Metzler:that's 10 k. And I guess
Charlies Lawrence:you gotta what? Fuck 10 k? You gotta do it. Yeah. I mean
Justin Metzler:There you go.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, yeah, it's it's an event where it's just like
Justin Metzler:Maybe a one and done vibe. Yeah.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Exactly.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Exactly. Alright. Cool. Grams per hour on a long run of carbs.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, instant answer a hundred plus. For example, I think I took yeah. Was like $1.25 during the hundred k or excuse me, 50 k. Nice. So
Justin Metzler:And favorite restaurant on Pearl Street? Oh. I see you posting some good food on Instagram. This guy's this guy's always he's getting he's getting the niche spots, you know.
Charlies Lawrence:I mean, it's not it's not it's not Pearl Street. Love Carita. I mean, this is a just the most basic, like, Boulder 1, but, like, when I can go, Frosco's fantastic. Shout out, Bobby. I'm giving multiple answers now.
Charlies Lawrence:But yeah. I mean, honestly, yeah, my favorite's probably honestly, Corita, but that's on that's on Walnut. Alright.
Justin Metzler:Still still counts. Boulder.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. It's it's right there. It's literally, like, a block away. So Yeah. Totally.
Charlies Lawrence:But, also, tangent, if, like, burgers, Krita owns a it's like their sister restaurant, Sea Burger. Just opened up where the old Oscar Blues was. Kind of across from West End Tavern. Bong. Smashed patties.
Justin Metzler:I'm gonna try that. I'm burger guy, I'll go for it. Here you Alright. Last one. Hardest training session or most epic training day you've done?
Justin Metzler:Let's say here in Boulder. Oh.
Charlies Lawrence:Probably I mean, this is just like just recency, but like I did it was my first long run back post, perennial. I was like, well, I need I need like something six weeks out from 50 k champs, so I did. This is off of only a few weeks of training, so take that into account. Ran four res loops, so 25 miles, five thirty eight average, rolling hills, and then doubled back, in the afternoon for five thirty. I would say if I'm definitely get like, getting ready into this fall, I'll probably top that where I'm honestly wanna be like 35, 40 at sub six.
Charlies Lawrence:We'll see. So that that's, again, probably the most recent.
Justin Metzler:You coming down Monarch, coming down Neva when you do the loop?
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. Coming down. Yeah. The well, so the one I did, was just four by Res Loop. So, yeah, I'd I'd start off going on the, like, Land Bridge and around.
Charlies Lawrence:Yep. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Epic.
Charlies Lawrence:But, yeah. But honestly, That's awesome,
Justin Metzler:man.
Charlies Lawrence:Yeah. But probably my biggest, like, epic training was probably, like, when I ran San Francisco Marathon. Like, I ran the, like, two mile warm up, ran the marathon, cooled down, and then doubled back for ten in the afternoon.
Justin Metzler:This that specific day was what prompted my, like, fascination with the hundred plus mile a week. So I remember following you on Straplin and being like, guy ran a freaking marathon, and then 10 miles in the evening to get to 01:30 or whatever. I was like, who cares about the one thirty? You just ran a marathon. But Yeah, bro.
Justin Metzler:You gotta get it done, ultra guy. Yeah. That's all I got, man. I really appreciate you coming on. Had a lot of fun.
Justin Metzler:And, yeah. Thanks for doing this. Of course, bro.
Charlies Lawrence:Mad fun.
Justin Metzler:Alright. Sweet. See you next episode. Peace.
