Alexey Vermeulen: Cyclist Extraordinaire, Brand Ambassador, Sir Willie's Sherpa
Alright. Super excited about my guest today, Alexei Ver rider in the world tour. Had an amazing conversation with a guy. Just overall, really interesting dude, cool dude. We talked about, you know, his early days in cycling, how he got into the sport, his progression to the world tour, and what he's up to now, riding around with his dog Willie on his back and racing the professional gravel scene.
Justin Metzler:Really enjoyed the, conversation. So here it is. Welcome to the Endurance Matters podcast with your host, me, Big Mets. Today, I'm really happy to have on my guest, Alexei Vermeulen. He's a 29 year old professional cyclist, father to sir Willie the wiener, who
Alexey Vermulen:is with us today, thankfully,
Justin Metzler:and just generally overall cool guy. Thanks, Alexei, for coming on the podcast. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:That won't be the best intro. Cool guy. I'll take that.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. When I think about Alexei, I just think overall exudes just coolness. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:I wanted that's more of my identity to be. Like, he's a cyclist and rides with his dog, but he's just a cool guy. Yeah. He's a good human.
Justin Metzler:Totally. Follow him on on Instagram. I think you're gonna think similarly about just cool guy vibes. I wanna start the podcast off today with a icebreaker question. And so first question I'm gonna ask you is tell me one thing that you're amazing at, like best in the world, and then tell me one thing you're the absolute worst at.
Alexey Vermulen:I would put my salmon up as better than most almost anybody could ever cook salmon.
Justin Metzler:Oh, okay.
Alexey Vermulen:Really good with salmon. Wow. It's a dry rub. You gotta like dry rubs.
Justin Metzler:I'm with you on the dry rub. Okay. Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:Worst at all sports. I am a I'm an eldest child. I wanna be the best at everything, and I am not good at ball sports. Basketball, baseball, you name it. Football, I just I don't know.
Alexey Vermulen:It doesn't go where I want it to go.
Justin Metzler:The you know what? Then you picked a good profession.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. No,
Justin Metzler:no hand eye coordinate well, very little hand eye coordination involved in cycling, maybe mountain biking a little bit more, but, what's a salmon trick?
Alexey Vermulen:It's not overcooking it, first off. And secondly, it's a it's like a sweetened, spicy rub. Like Yeah. A little bit of sugar and a little bit of, chili powder. And I just it just everyone that has it.
Alexey Vermulen:It's it's great. I feel like I just, like, googled it one day and I've just, like, slowly tweaked it, but I would it's it's my thing.
Justin Metzler:You go grill or oven on broil? Oven on broil. Yeah. That's the key.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. Grill, I love grilling. I love, like, to go, like, a basic salmon, you know, sometimes just like but if if you don't buy, like, a good piece of fish
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And then it's I feel like it's just it's hard to make it work best. Yeah. So
Justin Metzler:Yeah. We have salmon Monday every night at our house. That's we have salmon Monday? Dude, let's hang.
Alexey Vermulen:This is perfect. Literally, salmon Monday every Monday. Totally. Yeah. There's another dude who has a
Justin Metzler:podcast, Cody Ko. Do you know Cody Ko? Yes. He calls it Salmon Monday.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:That's pretty good. Like, funny joke. But, anyways okay. Salmon, we're gonna have to do the salmon hangout soon. I definitely wanna talk a little bit, obviously, more about who you are, what your background is.
Justin Metzler:I think one of the first real questions that I've got is, who is Alexei, what do you do, and why do you do it?
Alexey Vermulen:I have grown up and educated by race bikes my entire life. For a while, I felt stupid for not going to school, and kind of just racing my bike, but that's definitely, like, most of my identity, and I love it. When I was 16 years old, moved to Europe for the first time, and kind of went through the whole road circuit all the way up until racing for in the world tour for Jumbo Bisma for a couple years, before kind of reevaluating and coming back to the US and now racing gravel in this endurance scene that we have, lifetime Grand Prix. I think beyond that, people know me a lot for the kind of the person I am off the bike, which is I very much want to be down to earth, 2 feet on the ground. I ride with my dog all the time.
Alexey Vermulen:I think it's funny to make wiener jokes about it. Consistently trying to create a better place that we're all in. I think that's what I've loved about gravel is that it's so you new and so young that I get to be a part of building it and what that means for development riders going behind me and what that means for people coming who will hopefully kick my ass the next couple years. But I also get to still be competitive and make a living, racing a bike in the US, which is crazy to me growing up. So, yeah, I can just tilt it down.
Alexey Vermulen:I'm a cyclist that rides with his dog.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, you mentioned the the jumbo Visma, point in your in your life. I definitely wanna start there because yeah. I I know you know, on the research that I did, I I've studied a little bit on your, you know, your your time in Europe, racing bikes over there.
Justin Metzler:I'm fascinated with the Tour de France. I mean, we have the Tour de France coming up in a little bit. I'm I'm a big fan of bike racing in general. You know, I love time trials and stuff like that, just being a triathlete myself. How did you find cycling in the first place, and why did that stick for you?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. So my grandfather, my dad's side, who was actually passed, grew up in Holland and, raced before the war, before World War 2 World War 2 and then immigrated to Canada after. Sorry. And we never really did anything crazy, like, oh, you're gonna go race, but he would come to town and we just go for a bike ride. But instead of, like, a normal, you know, like, grandfather, dad, kid ride down the road, all of a sudden we'd ride, like, 60 kilometers.
Alexey Vermulen:And I'd realized, like, oh, I'm kind of kind of cracked right now. I didn't know what cracked was, but I'm like, I'm kinda cracked right now. And so I think as his kind of love and passion for bikes grew, so did mine. I entered a local race. I actually started in the kids triathlon because I'm always doing triathlons at the time.
Alexey Vermulen:Most infamous moment for me was running through transition and running the entire race with my helmet on. I I did win, but I had a helmet on. It was very demoralizing. And then from there, I kind of just, like, I fell in love with the bike for the odd reasons that most people do. It's a freedom.
Alexey Vermulen:There was a way to get away, before you're 16 and after your license, obviously, it's just like growing up in Michigan, it was the thing to do. I could get out. I could get away. I could do everything I wanted to do, see everything I wanted to see, and slowly that grew to a point where it was like I got to see I got to go all all around the US when my friends were stuck in Michigan, then all of a sudden I got to go to Europe. My friends are stuck in the US.
Alexey Vermulen:And so the bike started taking me to these places that I never really expected, and I think that's what I fell in love with at first is that, like, love of travel and experiencing new cultures and new places. And then as I matured and grew up, I realized that, like, oh, I also love this racing thing. It could be my job, and I might not have to, like, get a real job. Yeah. And I think we all love that.
Alexey Vermulen:You know? I was that was me in high school. I was, like, trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I ran hunt Christ I ran cross country all through high school, and then I just had this weird feeling of, like, running just keeps me here. I don't do anything.
Alexey Vermulen:I don't go anywhere. Yeah. But it's, like, it's very generic, like, safe, exciting thing. Oh, all your friends are going to school. You can go to school with them.
Alexey Vermulen:You can run-in college, and then cycling is a big unknown in Europe. And I'm really glad I did because it's it's changed the person I am.
Justin Metzler:Yep. How does that happen? Do you get an invitation to go to Europe? But, like, do you just go and rock up and and get in the right circles? Like, what was the initial first get to Europe move?
Alexey Vermulen:Yes. You can you can pay to go yourself. Definitely hard that way. When I was growing up, it was quite a pipeline, and it really is still down like a funnel where, you know, it's started out like, okay. Get local results and then go to nationals, get national results, and then go to a national talent ID camp that USA Cycling puts on.
Alexey Vermulen:Once you are in the, like, percentage there where it's worth it, your power numbers are good enough, they'll take you to Europe and then you pack it there and, you know, they'll take you for a 3 week camp and, like, okay. You raised 6 times. How did you do? Racing in Europe is very, very intense. Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:It's, you know, it's their national sport. It's like football here, and it's it's intimidating when you first get over there. Like, I remember, their race is a lot of them are called cremesis, which are, like, a little bit longer than a crit for the lap, probably, like, a 3 or 5 mile lap, and then you do it, you know, 8 or 10 times. And the first time, the entire national team's over there. 1st is my first time over there, and, like, all of us got dropped in 3 laps.
Alexey Vermulen:These have been strongest kids in America. Right? And it takes a learning experience of, like, believing in yourself enough to push someone else the same as they're pushing you.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And then once you hack it, you just you feel like you're on king of the world. It's like it's there's betting boards over there. There's dried fish everywhere. It's it's such a the culture of cycling in Europe is so special, and, yeah, I just I fell in love with the the romance of riding and became a passion really quickly.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Where did you end up living when you first got to Europe? All over. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:I lived in Itzahen, Belgium when I first got over there when I was, like, 16, 17. After that, we lived in Sydor Hall, which is on, like, the border with Germany. And when I signed my first goal of professional contracts, we started living in the Ardennes in Belgium and then from there over to, Girona, which obviously most people know. And then one of my favorite places actually where I lived in the end was, in Austria, in Clogganford. There's actually an Ironman there.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. Totally. Oh my gosh. 1 Austria is one of the coolest countries in the entire world.
Justin Metzler:I couldn't agree more. I was actually riding with a buddy this morning, and we were talking about a race there in September in Zelensy. Yeah. I raced the 70.3 world championships in Zelensy, and I was telling him, like, this is the sickest place. So I can only imagine living there.
Justin Metzler:It's just totally awesome.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. It's just it was it wasn't on purpose. I was dating a girl, and I was kinda trying to figure out what drone is really, really wanted to be. I've never it's funny saying this living in Boulder, but I never really want to be where cycling is the focus of everything. Mhmm.
Alexey Vermulen:I kind of want to like, that's my entire life beyond it, so, like, how do I figure out how do I meet people outside of that? Totally. And so Drona felt very tight. So when we started dating, she was like, I bought an apartment in Austria if you wanna go try living there, and I was like, yeah. Sure.
Alexey Vermulen:And it was such an experience because it was like, Drona, you go from this place that's similar to Boulder where you could ride with anyone at any time any day Mhmm. To Austria being, like, there was 3 pros there in that in this little area, and it was so simple. We would wake up, there's a group chat, no one would ask, like, what someone's workout is or what someone is just, like, we'd meet at the corner at 10 AM or 11 AM or 9 AM, and you go ride and you'd figure out where you're going and you'd go do your workouts and you meet up for coffee. Like, every day we rode together, and there was no stress to it of, like, oh, sorry. I got 30 thirties.
Alexey Vermulen:Alright. Sorry. I have tempo, you know, and I don't know. That changed my perception of, like, what the longevity of my my time in the sport was gonna look like. Mhmm.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's really cool. I mean, you know, you mentioned the jumbo Visma thing or whatever it was called at the time. What how did that come about? And tell me a little bit about what that's like being on because I don't I think at that time, they were maybe one of the smaller budget teams.
Justin Metzler:Mhmm. But now they're obviously like a a behemoth. They're huge. Yeah. So what was it like kind of being in that system and maybe some of the who are the some of the people you were riding with or racing with?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. So at the time, yeah, it's called LottoNL Jumbo. K. It's a team that's transcended right from Rabobank all the way to at one point, it was Belkin, and now it's Jumbo Bisma. Path you get on is very, you know, simple.
Alexey Vermulen:Honestly, it's, I got an email. I, at first, was like this is a joke. There's no way they're just sending me an email out of the blue asking me to come over for training camp, and sure as crap it was. And so wrote back a couple times and they had seen me race a race in Italy. It's one of the hardest in our country races in the world.
Alexey Vermulen:It's called Valdosta. It's, like, 5 days and 60,000 feet of climbing, and they had been impressed. It's weird. A day that I didn't think I was doing special, finished 6th on the day, like, the day that they were impressed by, and push came to shove. They were happy.
Alexey Vermulen:I mean, the thing that with the world tour is it's really a high level business, a lot like f one, and so you need to fit into the power profile and the rider they're looking for, but also the nationality. Right? They had just signed an American sponsor. At the time, it's called Brand Loyalty, which has a lot of loyalty programs, and so they were looking for an American rider, and I fit the bill for that. Sure.
Alexey Vermulen:From there, yeah, I signed the same time as, like, Primo's Roglic. We were great friends. It was really cool because he grew up, obviously, ski jumping, and, he's still, I would tell everyone, my favorite cyclist because just knowing him so much, but he's we're 2 international riders in a very Dutch team, and it was just interesting going through that learning curve of, like, what it's like to be on a pro team together because neither of us really knew what it was like to be at that level. Sure. You kinda asked what it was, you know, what it felt like, and it's it's very interesting because it's you do nothing.
Alexey Vermulen:You just ride your bike. Right? Like, I was explaining that this morning to somebody else. Yeah. So, like, gravel, you know, I booked my flights.
Alexey Vermulen:I have the hotel. I rent the car. I go get the car. I drive myself. Like, there you show up, and you travel with a carry on because they have everything.
Alexey Vermulen:They have new clothes for you. They can wash your clothes. They have your bike set up. They get from the airport. They make you dinner.
Alexey Vermulen:Like, it's a different world, and, yeah, it's it was really, really special. I think just in terms of, like, as an athlete, you can we can all attest to this. Like, setting a goal and getting there is a really crazy thing. It's, like, since I was 15 years old, I sacrificed things and left things behind to, like, go to the world tour.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And there's a lot of things I wish I would have done in that time, but, also, like, once I got there, I think that was a big thing for me as I was like, woah. I'm here. Now what do I do?
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Yeah. Totally. What I guess, like yeah. This might be fast forwarding, and I don't wanna I don't wanna brush over the world tour experience, but, like, what ultimately made you exit or maybe come back to America?
Justin Metzler:Because it didn't seem like your world tour what was it? 4 3, 4 years?
Alexey Vermulen:No. It's it's actually only 2. Okay. Yeah. I, honestly, the biggest thing is I felt like I stopped learning.
Alexey Vermulen:I love learning. Like, now as a gravel athlete, like, I don't have an agent. I don't have like, I want to do everything myself. I want to learn. I wanna feel like I know what happens post career.
Alexey Vermulen:The world tour, first off, it's really, really hard. Right? Like, I think I went in expecting to be better than I was, and I think I could have spent 2 or 3, 4 more years there trying to figure out if this was really what I wanted. But I was also assigned at 21 years old. So I was so young that I was like, if I leave now, I can actually have a career in something else as opposed to pushing through here for a couple more years and seeing if this is what I want.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. And so I think that stagnation of, like, feeling like I wasn't progressing anymore for me was the big push. And then once I moved back to the US and was trying to figure things out, honestly, the the pandemic was a big space for me as an athlete for probably for a lot of athletes to, like, take a think, figure out what we wanna do, and realize that, like, us as people are just as valuable as events because the minute events went away, everyone realized, like, oh, interesting. Yeah. So there wasn't really one thing, but I think, you know, by the time I was offered any other contract, it was less than I was making and all these things just started tumbling down where you feel like you just want more.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. And I you know, when you're doing that age when I was when you're 23 years old, you just you just jump in any opportunity, and I think that was the thing is I was like, oh, I can do better over here. It's worked out, but it could have been me going to school. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Totally. Did you know you were gonna come back and race bikes, or were there was there a possibility you were coming back to the states? Like, let's say, for example, the pandemic didn't happen. You come back to the states.
Justin Metzler:There's not much actually brewing here that you thought. Like, what what would you have done?
Alexey Vermulen:Yes. It's a little tricky. Still dating that girl in Austria, so, like, that kinda had to petered to run its course. I was, like, really confident in the decision going into, like, the holidays and came home, was enjoying time with family, and, like, freaked out and, like, signed with this amateur team for, like, half a year. And And I was finally, like, in July, I was like, this is so stupid.
Alexey Vermulen:I raced, like, July to or April to July, and I was like, I don't this is not fun. And then, like, really settle on, like, the off road stuff as gravel was growing. It's mainly focused on mountain bike at first.
Justin Metzler:Mhmm.
Alexey Vermulen:And then it kinda just took its course. I think I wanted to race bikes, but I gave myself a year to figure out, like, what does it look like racing bikes over here.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And so, really, like, 2019 at the end went really well, and that was kinda leading into 2020. And, I remember going to Tucson and kinda setting up for a spring training camp of being, like, okay. This is the last year. Like, you can give what you got. In that time, a lot happened for me.
Alexey Vermulen:Like, we decided, like, my girlfriend and I now, like, decide to move out to Boulder. I opened a lot of our opportunities and kind of built on a lot of the content projects I do now. And I think overall gave space to realize that it's a lot about picking the right companies, not following financial stuff. Yep. You can attest to that.
Justin Metzler:Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:And that's really hard to do in the moment when you're rushing and moving forward. And the minute you stop racing, you can realize of, like, oh, maybe I really do care about, like, the relationship I have with these people as opposed to making 2 grand more. 100%.
Justin Metzler:This episode is brought to you by Pillar Performance. Our newest sponsor, Pillar, is a sports micronutrition company. The easiest way to describe it is hydration and carbohydrate products that will take you through to the finish line. Pillar's mission is to get athletes to the start line in the best condition over and over again. For a while now, I've been taking Pillar triple magnesium, and it has been a game changer for my sleep and recovery.
Justin Metzler:I take it 30 minutes before bed each night, and I find I get deeper sleep, less cramps, and recover better for my next training session. Where Pillar differs from other micronutrition companies and supplements you've taken before is that the results are black and white. I see it on my Oura ring, my REM sleep and my deep sleep have both increased, and it's done wonders for my recovery and my readiness score on my Oura ring. For North American listeners, head to thefeed.com/pillar and enter code endurance for 15% off. That's endurance for 15% off all first time purchases.
Justin Metzler:For anywhere else in the world, head to pillar performance dot shop and enter endurance for 15% off all first time purchases. I say that that all the time, and all of the good partners that I've always I've had in my career have come from a personal relationship. It's very rarely been like company comes in, they offer x amount of dollars, that company stays with you for 10 years. It's the guy who you can have over for a coffee, who you can shake hands with, who you can text and say, hey. I need something.
Justin Metzler:Or they can text you and say, hey. We need something, you know, just to have that relationship. I think, like, from the outside looking in, I don't know a ton about the gravel in the off road world, but it does seem to me just, like, paying attention to your social media and the gravel scene from afar that it's very similar to long course triathlon where you need to create your own brand. Like you said, you're on the hook for everything. You're your own travel agent, business manager, agent in most cases.
Justin Metzler:So, like, was that a challenge to get, like, coming from the world tour where everything's kind of like, here it is. Was that a challenge, or did you feel pretty natural, like, in that role straight away?
Alexey Vermulen:It it was pretty natural. I'm a very outgoing person, and I knew that that's what I wanted to do when I left the road. Right? Like, I I think I it's it's nice to have this you're I'm young. It's there's not much left to go back.
Alexey Vermulen:I have, like, a savings account, and I was like, okay. I'm gonna fully dive into this. And so I was very confident that I was worth something, and I just had to prove it. I think the biggest learning experience for me was truthfully learning how to actually be valuable to a company. And I think I can talk about this for for hours and hours and hours, but it took a a call with a woman at Carhartt.
Alexey Vermulen:Pretty much I got on and started pitching, and, you know, 10 minutes later, she was like, oh, this is this is pretty this is horrible. She said that to you. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy.
Alexey Vermulen:It was just a she went over and, like, started explaining things and why this, why that, and how to look at this. And pretty much her point was if you go into any call anytime with a sponsor you've never talked to and have an assumption of what they need, you're gonna fail. And that's really, really hard to think when you're an athlete. You're like, oh, why does it matter? They can just give me $5.
Alexey Vermulen:Mhmm. They don't they're a $1,000,000 company. Who cares? But that's not how it works. And the best example I can give of this is so I was like, during the pandemic, I had a lot of friends who I was still living in Michigan, a lot of friends in Michigan, and I was getting connections to these big companies.
Alexey Vermulen:Like, I talked to the c the vice president of marketing at Ford. I talked to Carhartt. I talked to, like, some big Michigan companies. And I was talking to Ford and, got to the point with the the guy who's just like, I could give you a $100 on a budget right now, and I wouldn't know it went away. The problem is it would cost me double that to train and hire someone to quantify if you're actually bringing value in for us and then to be able to find space in our social calendar to promote what you are, which is a small niche.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. He's like, no. This doesn't exist. It's that if we come in, we have to come in with 1,000,000 of dollars and not a $100,000 because in the market, that does nothing for us. We have to come in, own cycling, come out.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. And I think that was a big realization for me of, like, it is relationship based. Yep. But it's also you have to live in reality. You can't live in delusion and think that, like, people just throw money at you because you do this entertainment thing.
Alexey Vermulen:Yep. And so, yeah, I think it was difficult at first, but I had these really good learning experiences that were demoralizing. They might have been demoralizing in the minute. Yeah. But as I've learned, like, I would like, that that kid who felt stupid for not going to college, I would now go up against any of my friends who went to business or marketing school, and I would argue whatever time limit you give us, I could sell more.
Alexey Vermulen:Totally.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. That's I mean, it's awesome to hear you talk about that experience because I I had a very similar, couple of experiences myself. I remember one with Discover Card. I was, like, on the phone with an executive at Discover Card and, like, trying to pitch my case for why triathlon wasn't an important thing for them to pay attention to. And she was just, like, I do not understand this at all.
Justin Metzler:I don't think she said it the same way of, like, I could give you a $100. I wouldn't I wouldn't feel it, but, I think that was kind of the sentiment that I I got. And it's
Alexey Vermulen:and it's crazy in that moment because you think you know everything. Right? You've built this pitch out. You've done the work. You think you've researched everything.
Alexey Vermulen:You're, like, oh, they focused on this, and this is why it's important. But you really you quickly realize when they start talking to you about things of, like, oh, there's a reason Red Bull's not a energy drink brand. Right? It's a media brand. There's a reason Carhartt doesn't view themselves as a clothing brand.
Alexey Vermulen:It's it's really hard to know before you have that conversation. I think that was a big learning sense for experience for me of, like, okay. Get on the phone, have a conversation, and then try to make a proposal Yeah. And try to have a, you know, a real conversation. And from there, you'll make a relationship that will lead to something or will just lead to friends.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah.
Justin Metzler:For sure. I feel like also, you know, I talk a lot about the because I've had a couple in the I have a lot of endemic partners and then a lot of non I've had some non endemic partnerships, and I'm sure you can attest to the fact that, like, getting the ones outside of the sport are probably are definitely a lot more difficult. That's where the big dollars are gonna likely come from. But if you talk to a wheel company or a bike company or a nutrition company, chances are someone's in that brand who at least gets it or can be a fan of you or can, you know, live vicariously through you. It's a lot more difficult with the, yeah, with the non endemic brands, the ones who are outside of the sports.
Alexey Vermulen:So I'll
Justin Metzler:have to pick your brain a little bit more to see what
Alexey Vermulen:you do with those. I mean, I think it's interesting also to not to, like, just to tie this all together. Like, you watch Unchained come out, right, on Netflix right now, and it's for me as a writer, like, when it first started it was first I watched with my girlfriend, I was like, I hate this. It's so dramatic. It's so like, I can't deal with this.
Alexey Vermulen:And then slowly, I realized, like, okay. Maybe this is bringing fans or information education into the sport, and that's what I can hope for. Right? That it makes it easier for us to have those conversations about non endemic stuff. Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:Because it's those are the companies that if you spend a year working on trying to explain what it is, the person's probably moved jobs already. A 100%. And that's where it gets really difficult.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I agree. I mean, obviously, with gravel racing and triathlon, there's this whole additional element of having to build your brand and maintain your brand, continuously fight for what you feel like you're worth and, you know, what the worth of your sport is as a whole because, you know, I feel like you and maybe myself are are examples in terms of, you know, kind of maybe where the bar should be set. And I always have felt like it's important for us to advocate not only for yourself, but, you know, the more you advocate for yourself and the more dollars you can get for yourself, that kinda sets an industry standard. So if you're sitting there taking a lower value across the board, someone who's equal or lesser a lower profile rider, they're not even gonna be able to make ends meet.
Justin Metzler:You know?
Alexey Vermulen:For sure. And I think the the biggest thing when you start talking about that stuff, I think, is if I can convince young riders that getting results is just the validation that you're working with that company Yeah. That's not a return on investment Yep.
Justin Metzler:At all. Totally.
Alexey Vermulen:And the minute you can realize that of, like, hey. That's that's me validating why I'm here. Yeah. Now I have to return the investment. I have to go sell bikes or I have to explain or bring new customers in.
Alexey Vermulen:Yep. That's where the real understanding happens, and that is unquantifiable to a point. Yep. But we all know it. It's a feeling.
Alexey Vermulen:It's a gut feeling of, like, I'm doing a positive thing for this company, and we're moving forward. Yeah. Or it's, you know, it's not working for this for this reason or the other, and we gotta work on something.
Justin Metzler:Yep. For sure. So, obviously, like, this is all you know, it's it's additional stress. It's additional time. You know, you're you're always out there.
Justin Metzler:You're making YouTube videos. You're posting on social media. You're obviously putting in the groundwork, whether it's making sure the relationships are fortified and strong and making sure the companies are getting exactly what they need, whether that's product development or content or whatever. But I know for a fact you're still training hard. So what walk me through a little bit about, like, what the demands of training are now compared to maybe what they were when it was the world tour and just going out there and nailing the sessions was the key because, like, I'm I'm a Strava guy, so I'm always on Strava checking out, like, what everyone's doing.
Justin Metzler:And, like, I see you riding there with Willie, but I know you're doing some hard sessions. So, like, tell me a little bit about the training now.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. It's a tough one to answer. I mean, I think, yes. I still try hard, 100%. I, like, I wanna be at the front of the sport.
Alexey Vermulen:I also definitely from the road would say I'm operating at, like, 80, 85% of my capacity. Like, I've set a compartment I've compartmentalized a lot of everything I do to be, like, okay. I want to be a spectacular athlete the best I can with the time I have, but I also wanna set this time aside to make cool content. I want to be there for sponsors. I wanna be able to do all the podcasts, all the photoshoots, everything that needs to be done and not pretend like a race is more important than that because I can show up to the race, especially in gravel, hanging flat out in the first 10 miles, and you're like, that was sick.
Alexey Vermulen:I'm glad I canceled a lot of things for that. So, yeah, I train hard. I think I just I'm what I the reason I think I've been a professional athlete or my biggest what I'm asked at is compartmentalizing things and figuring out where the priority lives at a given time and then how to how to kind of figure that out. I think one of my favorite phrases that I used randomly, the other day was that if you have one skill set and you're really good at it and you kinda dig yourself a hole, but your only your only skill set is digging, there's no help at the at the bottom of the hole. Right?
Alexey Vermulen:And if you kinda figure out of, like, I'm really good at training, but I can't do anything else. If you're not winning every race, it's not valuable. And so Yeah. Yeah. I try to do a good mix.
Alexey Vermulen:I train a lot. My girlfriend races short course triathlon, so a lot of times I'll go out and do 2 hours for myself, do a couple efforts, whatever I have, come back, and then grab her and Willie, and we'll go ride. And it's just always just figuring out where that like, what is what is my workout? What's her workout? How we fit that together?
Alexey Vermulen:A lot of times, like, we'll just do one bike difference. So if she's on a gravel bike, I'll be on a mountain bike. If she's on a road bike, I'll be on a gravel bike, and it kinda works out. We're both doing our workouts and enjoying it, and then I think it's like it really moves past because we can all attest. We have those really hard days, and it's it's easy to pretend like you're the only one in that and you're just struggling all day.
Alexey Vermulen:And the minute you can bring some camaraderie in there, it's a lot more fun.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. A 100%. Do you do most of your training, like, alone or with Sophie, or do you have, like, a little group here in Boulder that you're, like, trying to
Alexey Vermulen:get rides in with? Mostly with Sophie. Yeah. I got a couple of friends that I ride with, but it's definitely, I'm privileged to ride at, like, 10 AM every day Yeah. But just not the time everyone rides.
Alexey Vermulen:Right. So, yeah, I feel I'm just and I'm also not one I really want to educate people on, like, safety with cars and bikes. And a lot of the group rides that go on in every city, not just Boulder. It's really hard to be a part of that when everyone's all over the road. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And you you look back and there's 20 cars deep Yeah. And everyone's just racing across the yellow line. I don't really wanna be a part of that even if that's fun to me. Sure. So it's hard unless there's a ride that, you know, has cars in front and back and are kinda helping move things and we have some stops to let cars by.
Alexey Vermulen:It's hard for me to, like, want to be a part of big group rides, just because I think there's that's our biggest issue as bike riders.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. No. I'm I'm with you and, like, I've been in Boulder 10 years and I've never really done any of those. And maybe that's just because I'm a triathlete, and I wanna rock up rock up on my TT bike. But, like, yeah, I'd go out in, like, you know, smaller groups, like 4 or 5 or whatever.
Justin Metzler:So I don't I don't really know that that same dynamic. Although, yeah, triathletes are maybe not known for being, you know, the most conscious when it comes to the the cars and stuff going on on the road, but, you know, we try our best. You know, you mentioned training with Sophie. I'm interested to hear a little bit more about your guys' dynamic because before I met you, I I've known Sophie, just having swum with her a little bit and having been a fan. Actually, funny enough this year, I randomly ran into her in the Auckland International Airport Lounge.
Justin Metzler:No way.
Alexey Vermulen:Well, tell me about that. Yeah. We were,
Justin Metzler:like, both just randomly in New Zealand. I was doing an Ironman Triathlon. She had just done a she had just won a,
Alexey Vermulen:a Napier.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Napier, World Cup. Yeah. And so that was, like, a huge result for her on her path to the Olympic Games. Has she qualified for the games yet?
Alexey Vermulen:When is this coming out? I don't know. Soon. After the after 20th? Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. So she yes. She has.
Justin Metzler:I assumed that she had gone gotten
Alexey Vermulen:It's not announced till 20th. Okay.
Justin Metzler:Yes. So she so, yeah. Sophie, Lynn, Olympian, and so that's your your girlfriend. And, you know, my wife is is Jeannie. You know, you know Jeannie.
Justin Metzler:And, you know, we're a household of 2 high performing athletes. Like, you guys are the same, both trying to pursue it at a high level. Additionally, you guys, you know, you both have jobs in addition to riding your bikes and training. So it seems like there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff going on. I'm sure you guys are super busy.
Justin Metzler:Like, how do you guys find that balance, and what do you guys do to spend time together or, like, check out?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. I mean, I think the the reality of it is during season, it's a lot of just time on the couch. Right? Yeah. Mornings and nights.
Alexey Vermulen:Sophie is by far more impressive than I am. I mean, she's she works as an interface designer for, Hammerhead and SRAM. She truly has a second job. The reason I say that is, like, yeah. I have a second job, but my job is very much based on, like, when do I want to do something?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. She doesn't get to choose those things. She has set meetings and all this stuff. And so I think a lot of what we do is just try to find balance in understanding that the river never flows both ways at the same time. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And so if it has to be that I cooked dinner 7 days in a row, that's just how it has to be. It's how it worked out, and vice versa, you know, or she cleans up or how it goes. It's just a lot of communication. I think I realized at a quite a young age that, being a professional athlete meant you had to find someone who just kind of understood that it wasn't that you were devaluing them. It was just a sacrifice you were making to be the best you can be at something.
Alexey Vermulen:And so, yeah, I I would say this year has been by far the most chaotic with Sophie trying to qualify for the Olympics and, me trying to support that and also do my own things. My brother got married in the middle of the year. Yeah. So it's just been really busy, but I think it's it's all just communication and staying on top of it. And then those moments we can get out and, you know, go for 2 hours of riding together and you can just talk, are really nice, and it's it's nice that they don't always feel like training even though they are.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Totally. I mean, it's it's cool. I mean, you mentioned it, like, it'd be very difficult for me at least to have a a partner or spouse who wasn't an athlete. I mean, it brings its own set of challenges.
Justin Metzler:I mean, sometimes it would be you'd think, Mel, would it be easier if they weren't trying to pursue this at such a high level? But I think it's a lot more rewarding when you both are on a track of high performance, and that person's the only person who's gonna understand you fully. So at the end of the day, obviously, it's very worth it. I'm sure we both feel that way. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:Like, I guess another thing I, you know, I don't, wanna jump around too much, but, I wanna circle back quickly to the the training aspect of things. And I wanna touch on a little bit of, like, a mutual interest that we that we both have, in regards to the time trial. And so, yeah, the first time we actually met was because we have the same wheel sponsor, Envy, and, yeah, I got a text message from a random number. It was Alexi, and it was our, like, sponsorship manager saying, hey. Can you help Alexi out get some wheels to go to the wind tunnel?
Justin Metzler:And I'm sitting here being a he's a it's Alexi's a gravel guy. What's this guy need race wheels for? Triathlon wheels. He comes over to the house. He grabs the wheels.
Justin Metzler:He takes them to the wind tunnel. And then I look back at your results a little bit. And, obviously, the last 3 or 4 years, it's been littered with off road results and races. Those have clearly been the focus if you pay attention to the YouTube channel or the social media, but there still definitely is this interest in the time trial. You've done it the last couple years.
Justin Metzler:You know, last year, you were 6th in the individual TT. Is this US national championship? This year, 7th. So you're up there. And, I mean, in order to be in the top ten, like, and close enough to because the winner gets an Olympic spot.
Justin Metzler:Right? Like, what's the motivation around the time trial with all of this off road stuff? Like, why are you still putting yourself out there in the TT?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. I like from a young age, that's what I was most interested in. That's what I wanted to go to worlds for. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to go to the Olympics for time trial.
Alexey Vermulen:I just the same reason anybody talks about it, like, being a race of truth, it truly is. There's no complaints. There's no, like, no excuses. It's really just unless you have a really unlucky day, it's you and the bike and the course. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:That's it. I think the, like, infatuation started back when I was, like, truly racing on the road. Like, I had a couple, like, really close calls. I never was never a national champion. Like, under 23, I was second, and then I went to the elites, and I was 3rd, and then I went to Doha for the world championships, and finished, like, 28th.
Alexey Vermulen:And I was just, like, I just always felt like I didn't put enough in, but I always wanted to be there. Like, it was so exciting in the moment to execute a day that was, like, 98% there. Yeah. You know? And you just you you keep working because you want the 100 100% day.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. And so as I have been on this kind of gravel endurance path, I've that's a lot of what I've missed. I've missed this, like, true focus on, like, perfection, because gravel is the pursuit of in pursuit of perfection in gravel is very unrealistic because there's so many unknowns
Justin Metzler:Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:And variables. And so, like, it's hard to sit here and say I'll go back again next year because it's really hard to fit time trial training into gravel, but it's it's a blast. I love it. Right? And so I the minute I had a chance, I were started working with Factor, and they wanted to go to the wind tunnel.
Alexey Vermulen:I was like, cool. We can make content with Willie, and I'll also, like, get some data. And I was like, oh, wow. I'm, like, actually pretty pretty aero, and then you're, like, you're trying to figure out where the numbers have to be. And I think that's the hard part of, like, you might be able to test this maybe a little bit different with the Ironman, the half Ironman stuff, but, like, problem is going into both, like, last year and this year at nationals, I knew I wasn't good enough.
Alexey Vermulen:Numbers are so specific. Right? Like, I did 385 this year. I weigh, like, 65 kilos just under, and, like, I knew I had to do 400 to be on the podium. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:It was that simple. Yeah. Like, unless something catastrophic happened, like and that's hard to go into a race, and I'm proud to, like, go and, know, execute the good the good day, the 98% day or whatever. It's a perfect day for me on with what I had. Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:But it's also hard going in knowing, like, I'm not where I wanted to be and knowing that 3 weeks out. Totally.
Justin Metzler:That's such a battle for athletes, and I think you can probably cherry pick. You could go to the Colorado State National Time Trial, and you could destroy everybody if you wanted to just like I could probably rock up to some small level triathlon and win pretty handedly. But the same goes for a lot of the triathlons that I've been doing. They're getting so competitive now just like the just like the cycling races are, just like Unbounds getting. And like you said, sometimes it's a math equation.
Justin Metzler:I mean, you look back just a couple weeks ago, like, I raced Boulder 70.3. The guy who won did probably 55 more watts than me, and I weigh £10 more. Insane. And we've got similar aerodynamics, this and that. So it's like, well, okay.
Justin Metzler:I knew that going in. I trained with the guy 4 times a week. I knew he was gonna beat me. So you just gotta find, I think, a different level of motivation and, like, yeah. I mean, we're similar age.
Justin Metzler:I'm 31. You're 29. Yeah. I mean, going into those, at least for me, like, the big motivator is to just try to extract the most out of myself. So as long as you have that perspective going into something like the time trial of, like, look, I'm happy giving it whatever I've got on the day, flying home and saying, hey.
Justin Metzler:I tried my best. Yep. I did the best for my sponsors. Yep. Like, what else can you do?
Justin Metzler:You know?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. For yeah. I I think it's, yeah, it's it's so true, and it's, yeah, it's just crazy to be in those moments and, like, I think everyone thinks it's like, oh, you never know what can happen. Like, you kinda know what's gonna happen.
Justin Metzler:Yep. You did mention the, like, unpredictability of a gravel race. Do you feel like that is something that draws you towards it? Because maybe if there are guys who just have a threshold that's, like, you know, half a watt per kilo higher, like, in gravel, it seems like anything can happen or mountain
Alexey Vermulen:bike. It's hard. I try not to compare road and gravel because they're very different, but I do miss that from the road. I miss mechanicals and crashes being something you encountered and moved forward as opposed to, like, race ending things. I don't know if that's something I wanna change in gravel necessarily because I don't know how that would change the whole ethos of why gravel's been born.
Alexey Vermulen:But I do yeah. The the element of preparation for a gravel race is somewhat fun. Right? Like, praying for Unbound is just you're going to war. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Like, I Unbound when I was I finished 5th one time, and that's resulted in Unbound, and I Yep. I I my saddlebag, I had, like, duct tape and c o twos and zip ties. Like, I was ready to just single speed the bike hone no matter what happened. Right? Like, I was ready to MacGyver everything I had to do to finish the race, which is a very interesting feeling.
Alexey Vermulen:Can juxtapose that to, like, road racing where you're on the lightest possible bike and you're how fast can I go up this hill? They're both really awesome, but I think at any given time, you if you have a lot of bad luck in gravel, you're gonna start to hate that a lot, and it's hard to, like, to love the training aspect of, like, preparing to not get a chance to race the finale. Sure. As opposed to road racing is very scientific, and that can also be annoying. But there's a beauty of that as well.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Yeah. A 100%. I mean, you mentioned the 5th at Unbound. You know, just scrolling through some of your results, you had a second at Leadville 2023, and then you've done Unbound 3 times.
Justin Metzler:Yep. 17th, 5th, and 12th. Like, from from my perspective, that's not a massive body of evidence of work. A 5th already is like, that's amazing on your second attempt. Like, is is unbound the north star for you, or is there a different motivator?
Alexey Vermulen:I'd love to not be doing Unbound in 3 or 4 years. It's such a stressful race. Does
Justin Metzler:that take a win?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. For me to not go back, I think I think it's just the reality of it. Like, I can say that, but I'm also excited every time I show up that energy around the race is big. But moreover, I like, I don't know what the comparison would be for Ironman, but, like, it's the biggest race by far. For envy, the value trumps my feelings.
Alexey Vermulen:Right? Like, it's the reality is I'll be there for as long as I'm racing a bike. It's just a race that it's so chunky and so out there, and 200 miles is so long that Yeah. The the workload it takes to complete that really ruins everything else behind it or in front of it. Mhmm.
Alexey Vermulen:So it's it's really hard to, like, say, okay. From January to May, I'm gonna focus on Unbound, and then you finish and either goes or doesn't go well. And then from there, you're like, okay. Now I gotta take a break and figure out how to, like, rebuild myself. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Which is easy if it goes well. It's less easy if it doesn't. And so it's just trying to figure that out. It's not a race I've ever found, like, to just be able to ride through and have and just, like, keep moving. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:I keep trying, but that's that was the real goal when I first the first shared it in Unbound. I was like, okay. I wanna come back in 2022, and I was 5th. I was like, I wanna win Unbound. In 2021, I was, whatever, 17th at Unbound and then 4th at Road Nationals.
Alexey Vermulen:And then the next year, I was, 5th at Unbound and, like, 12th at Road Nationals, and I that's the big goal is to finish on the podium with both unbound and Road Nationals. That's the real, like, bringing the relation, like, my 2 worlds together.
Justin Metzler:That'd be huge. I mean, like you said, that's just such a complicated training equation. It's like trying to do, like, what Sophie does in short course triathlon and try to do an Ironman in the same season. Like, you just don't see it. So that would be incredibly impressive.
Justin Metzler:I'd love to, like, obviously see the narrative and the story behind something like that. I think that'd be really cool. So I'm gonna keep cheering Yeah. Every year. Sponsor of today's episode is Precision Fuel and Hydration.
Justin Metzler:These guys have been an awesome partner of mine for many years, and I really love the entire product line. They helped me tremendously when it came down to getting my fluid needs, sorted out, getting my electrolyte needs organized, and also just figuring out how many carbs per hour I needed. And they have an entire product line that has a lot of variety and different options for you. So my favorite option from them is the PF30 Chew. I sort of take them out of their wrapper and load them into my top tube storage compartment on my bike and just munch on those every 20 or 30 minutes when I'm out doing a hard training session or doing a race.
Justin Metzler:They also have a bunch of sweat experts over there who can help you figure out exactly what your fluid carbohydrate and electrolyte needs are. So head on over to pfandh.com, and that will get you, code bigmets will get you 15% off your first order, so enjoy that and check them out. One other question I have about this, like, off road thing is what are the big differences, I guess, maybe in the training or the preparation for a mountain bike event like Leadville and a gravel event like Unbound?
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. So I think the easier way to explain it is so our race series or a big race series, the Grand Prix, it's 4 gravel races, 3 mountain bike races.
Justin Metzler:K.
Alexey Vermulen:All the races change drastically, from, like, time, distance, and then also just the way they're raced and, like, are they at altitude? Are they not? So we start off at CR, which is, like, a 4 and a half hour mountain bike race, which is decently long for a mountain bike race. And then you go into 2 months later in downbound, which is obviously, like, massive endurance, gotta be strong. And then from there, we go to Tuscher in Utah that is 69 miles and 11,000 feet of climbing.
Alexey Vermulen:So pretty much up, down, up. Yeah. And then from there, we go race, like, a 40 mile mountain bike race that's, like, almost sub 2 hours. And so a lot of our season is trying to build this at least the best way I found to do it so far is to build this big base, be a very healthy fit human that, can take a lot on, can kinda get through without being injured, And then going into each race, try to tailor toward that race. Sure.
Alexey Vermulen:You know, so, okay. I'm going into sea otter. I'm gonna ride the mountain bike a little bit more. Gonna focus on shorter efforts here. Then the minute you go into On Bound, you can say, I don't need to the next 2 months, I don't need to worry about long efforts at all.
Alexey Vermulen:I just got or sorry, short efforts at all. I just have to focus on, like, long tempo stuff because it's just about how efficient I can be eating nutritionally, not having GI issues, stuff like that. And then going into, Tosher, it's all about, like, okay. Threshold climbing. That's it.
Alexey Vermulen:At altitude. So it's like it keeps that that dial just keeps moving, which is I think what makes it a little bit fun. You just can't get behind. Yeah. Because the minute you are trying to make up fitness in the midst of the year, we pretty much race once every month, which is really hard to, like, gain fitness and focus on, like, dialing in the race.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And so it's, it's a lot of pre preparation.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Absolutely. And, I mean, if I feel like with that, like, it's kinda similar to a triathlon season. We're not as locked in. I mean, maybe we are a little bit now with the Ironman series, which is forcing you to race 5 70 point threes in iron.
Justin Metzler:You have 2 3 Ironmans and 270.3 as part of the series. So it's kinda similar in the sense of you've gotta be relatively consistent. You've gotta kinda prepare yourself right before the race for whatever the demands of that competition are, reset, move on to the next. I guess the good thing about training here in Boulder for that is I always say that this is a place where you can it's it's amazing because there's there's access to anything that you need. Like, if you're doing a time trial ride, perfect time trialing.
Justin Metzler:If you're doing a a road ride, perfect road riding. Gravel riding, in my opinion, as a very amateur gravel rider who rides his gravel bike, like, twice a month, I think the gravel riding here is freaking awesome. Like, it's so good, and I I've probably explored, like, 20% of what there is out there. Maybe a little bit more, but still very, very good. And I've heard the mountain biking isn't quite as good.
Justin Metzler:Like, what I I guess the question that I'm I'm after here is, like, what is your favorite ride or route here in Boulder?
Alexey Vermulen:So I ride my mountain bike a lot just because when I'm riding with Willie, just safer, it feels like. And also then it just, like, whoever I end up riding with, I don't feel like I'm trying to half wheel someone or any like, usually, it's easier for me, like, not to act like I'm the strongest, but it's usually easier for me to back off or go harder as opposed to them backing off.
Justin Metzler:Sure.
Alexey Vermulen:So I'm afraid I ride a hard mountain bike a lot, usually a hard tail. Probably my favorite ride is tying together all the canyons through these gravel connectors.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And so, you can go I'd usually love to kinda go out east a little bit and come back in, go over Yoder into left hand. You climb up left hand to Rowena. You can take Rowena over to Sunshine. Yep. Climb up Sunshine for about 500 feet, and you can go left on Church Trail, so you can see on the 4 mile.
Alexey Vermulen:K.
Justin Metzler:I haven't been on that one. Yeah. And then you can
Alexey Vermulen:and then you can, take Church Trail either up 4 mile to Switz k. Or you can and into Gold Hill
Justin Metzler:Yep.
Alexey Vermulen:Or you can take Logan Mill up to the top. And so they're all usual, and then you can go from there down Sugar Loaf over to flag Yep. And flag at 68 j on top. So there's all these, like I love just kind of skirting that 7 to 8 to 85 foot all the way through all the canyons.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:That's probably my favorite. I think my biggest gripe with boulder riding is in the winter, you lose all the fun riding. Yeah. Like, it's just dangerous to go. It's just icy.
Alexey Vermulen:And, like, in Michigan, I saw, like, just ride a a studded tire bike and, like, get through it. You can't, like, do that here.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Because it's, like, 70 degrees, then it's negative 2. Yeah. And it's hard to keep up with. But, yeah, there's you're I mean, yes. There's a lot of great riding.
Alexey Vermulen:Even the mountain biking, people complaining. It's because you have to drive there. But if you just wanna ride a little longer, like, I ride all the mountain bike trails, and it's a blast.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. Sick. Yeah. I'm I wanna get into mountain biking, but I feel like the gravel's gotta it's gotta stop the gravel while I'm still racing Ironmans professionally because I feel like my technical skill is good enough for a gravel bike, but not good enough to do anything like go over to haul or Yeah. Ranch or any of that stuff.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. One one final question kinda that I have here before we start wrapping it up. Like, I'm you know, we have a mutual sponsor that I mentioned in Envy. I don't know a ton about it, but I've I looked a little bit into your that phase 2 project. You mentioned it earlier in the podcast about giving back to this next generation of riders.
Justin Metzler:That's something that I'm trying to do a little bit on, like, a very small scale and maybe less of, like, a public level right now. I definitely wanna ultimately do something similar in triathlon, which is trying to, like, set up this next generation of people to get into triathlons and and think that it's cool. Seems like you're doing that, with the gravel stuff with phase 2. I mean, what's the big goal off the course? Is it this phase 2 thing?
Justin Metzler:Or is there something bigger? Or, like, what's the off the bike kinda, like, driving force for you?
Alexey Vermulen:Apparently, I have time off the bike right now. My dog. Yeah. Faye phase 2, I'm very, very proud of. It's something definitely that, like, I definitely didn't need to add more to my plate at that given time.
Alexey Vermulen:It's one of those things that I got really sick of everyone saying, like, there's no development because of USA Cycling or because of lifetime. Like, reality is there's no development because no one just puts their hand up and says I'll start. To the point of it, the rate the way I pitched it to Neil at Envy was that saying, like, hey. I want at the end of this at the end of 2024 to be able to tell my colleagues, hey. Look at what we did this year.
Alexey Vermulen:Group this with your companies. Not to make this an envy and Alexei thing that every company next year, Cannondale, Santa Cruz, track, you name it, wants to carry development riders and sees value in that because otherwise, you're just gonna see the same guys win for the next 5 years, and I don't know why that's fun. Yeah. And so that's how it started as the impetus of it. And so it's it was really cool to see and we get excited about it.
Alexey Vermulen:And I had to go a little bit crazy pitching late in the end of the year to kinda find the rest of the budget, but it's just been about how you create and help all the things we've been talking about, teach a 19 or 20 year old those things. So they learn them before they're 25. Yeah. And be able to be a great sponsored athlete and a good human, and then see if they can hack it. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Like, I don't know the people we picked if they can hack it physically. Yeah. That's the truth. But I know that at the end of the year, I will have given them all of my experience or my my beliefs and what it takes to be a good sponsored athlete, and hopefully that translate in them being valuable to sponsors beyond the results they get so that if they get the results, it's valuable. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:So that and then I have another called project called from the ground up that focuses on, can't born out of the pandemic with another person in Boulder named Ryan Petrie. And the goal of that was just that as people getting into bikes, there was no explanation of why or how to do anything. Mhmm. I think for so long, people come into the sport because they saw someone else do it. And during the pandemic, it was because gyms closed and people needed mental sanity from their families.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And so you saw so many people on bikes who didn't know what they were doing, and and the point of from the ground up was giving people a goal and a way to be educated that was not overwhelming and kind of turn that narrative from, like, pros probably aren't the best people to listen to because they are doing it for their own reasons
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:And to kind of give people a community at some of these races. And so that's been a cool project going into its 4th year crazy crazy enough. And, yeah, just focus on normal everyday people taking on something that's theoretically impossible and giving them all the things tools they need to do it and riding bikes. And, some of them still race. Some of them commute now.
Alexey Vermulen:It's all different, but they're still on bikes, which is really cool.
Justin Metzler:That's huge. I mean, it's it's awesome. I actually I know Ryan Peacher really well, and I was paying attention to the, to the project, like, as it's been going on. And I've just been like, yeah. Obviously, proud of him, proud of you.
Justin Metzler:I think it's, like, both initiatives are amazing, and they're doing a good thing for the sport, which I think at the end of the day, like, that's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to leave the sport of triathlon with is just, like, leave it a better place than when I found it. Sounds like you're doing something, and you it seems like you're going above and beyond in cycling, which is really huge. So, yeah, it's awesome.
Alexey Vermulen:And I think you know this, but, like, I'll say it on the podcast. You're doing a great job. I think that's everyone needs to realize, right, is that it just it takes all of us doing a little. It's not one person overdoing anything. I'm not trying to show up anybody.
Alexey Vermulen:Older can make you feel any of these, like, little niches of sport can make you feel like you're less than at a given time. But, I don't know. All of these niche sports, they're special because of that reason, because they're a smaller group of people. And I really love that when you can get in and see impact start even if it started small. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:It's it's really special. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:You just gotta be yourself. That's what I've learned. Just be yourself. Do what motivates you. Do what makes you excited.
Justin Metzler:Like, sign up for the projects. Put your hand up for the things that you like. Don't do the things you don't like, and just proceed with authenticity, which I think is, like, why you've been so successful. So I don't wanna take too much of your time, but I do have some final rapid fire questions. I'm ready.
Justin Metzler:If you're ready for them. Alright. Number 1, how long would it take Willie, who we haven't mentioned once in the podcast, and he's feeling very self conscious about that.
Alexey Vermulen:He's about to jump off your table.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. He's
Alexey Vermulen:just made. Well, this is Willie.
Justin Metzler:How long would it take him to swim 100 meters?
Alexey Vermulen:I don't know if I had a bucket of bacon if I could get him to swim a 100 meters, but if we could, I would guesstimate what do you think, Willie?
Justin Metzler:2 and a half minutes? 2 and a half.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. That's pretty good. He can go. Both on his feet and in the water, he can go when he when he needs to. Totally.
Alexey Vermulen:He just very rarely needs to. He's very spoiled.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. No. A 100%. Maybe you should put him in the backpack and strap him to Sophie. There you go.
Justin Metzler:And then you guys
Alexey Vermulen:Now I can then I can maybe beat her.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. A 100%. Alright. Would you rather be dehydrated and cramping on 36 or stuck on the peak to peak shivering in the snow without a jacket?
Alexey Vermulen:I'm always prepared, Justin. I'm always gonna have a jacket.
Justin Metzler:This guy.
Alexey Vermulen:I hate 36. You can be Pick to peak. Peak to peak. Peak to
Justin Metzler:peak. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. I'll figure out how to make a fire. I'll make a friend. I'll find somebody. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:I mean, you can you can go in
Justin Metzler:the little store up there, knock on someone's door.
Alexey Vermulen:I just like, oh, man. I I feel like if I the more I ride I've ridden my TT bike, I've understood why people ride 36, but I hate it. Really? I'm like, it is the one place for all the cars.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I'm with you.
Alexey Vermulen:We should all be elsewhere.
Justin Metzler:Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:I hear you. Yeah. It that and diagonal. I don't understand why anyone rides diagonal. Yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:Like, it takes 5 to 8 minutes longer to go through spine. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin Metzler:No. I hear you. I hear you. I think because we're all worried about our average speed, unfortunately. All the triathletes at least.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. And we, like, do it in the race and stuff, so I
Alexey Vermulen:don't know.
Justin Metzler:Maybe that's the reason why. Alright. You have your last $5 at the gas station. What are you getting?
Alexey Vermulen:I'm going to get a Kit Kat and some kind of cherry soda.
Justin Metzler:That is an exceptional answer. I'm a Kit Kat guy through and through. I actually have one in my pocket on my ride on Saturday, and I was so upset because I climbed out of Estes Park to the top, and it was gonna be my, like, little reward. And the thing is just it was, like, a 100 degrees. The thing just melted, unable to eat.
Justin Metzler:So I was actually really disappointed. Mine's a Kit Kat as well and a Red Bull. But nowadays, I don't even think you can get a Kit Kat and a Red Bull for $5, unfortunately. If we
Alexey Vermulen:were in Europe and it would like, the red the Red Bull flavors in Europe, I'm all about. Ah. They're a little different. Yeah. The, like, normal Red Bull, I just I don't need it.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. No. I hear you. I hear you. Alright.
Justin Metzler:Who, between you and Sophie, is winning the overall Willy pooh pickup scoreboard?
Alexey Vermulen:Oh, I farmy. Really? She pretends all the time, like, oh, I'll get it. And then it's me having to go pick it up.
Justin Metzler:Oh, nice. Genie's definitely winning our poo pickup scoreboard. Yeah. Alright. And I asked our last guest this, so they may have already heard this question, but you haven't.
Justin Metzler:Would you this is the last one. Would you rather only ride your bike a 100 miles a week, total training volume, or have to ride your bike everywhere, grocery store, airport, to the race, bike tracking it out there?
Alexey Vermulen:I do I have known a car since I was 15 years, 16 years old, so I I'd say ride a bike everywhere. I mean, it's definitely be annoying at times, but I I don't know. Yeah. I definitely like. I could make a 100 miles fun.
Alexey Vermulen:You can make you can make a 100 miles a week a lot. Right? If you all climb straight up in Boulder. Yeah. But yeah.
Alexey Vermulen:No. I'd probably say that I'd I just commute everywhere. I enjoy that. It's it's fun when you can find that space where it doesn't feel like training and it doesn't feel like commuting. It's it's it's a lot of fun for me.
Alexey Vermulen:Yeah. And I also like I'm definitely like the European style of, like, I'm all high in my day. I wanna go to the grocery store 4 times a week. Like, I hate getting groceries for the whole week. I'd love to, like, go and just get groceries for each meal.
Alexey Vermulen:No. I hear you.
Justin Metzler:I hear you. Oh, cool. That's all the rapid fire I've got. That's that's the interview for today. Thank you so much for coming
Alexey Vermulen:on, man. Yeah. Thanks, Justin. It's a pleasure. Thank you.
Justin Metzler:Alright. That was a great conversation with Alexi. Just enjoyed getting to know him more. Obviously, hanging out with Willie a little bit and, just really enjoyed getting to know more about the gravel scene as a whole, his adventures in time trial racing, and, what his plans are for the future and what the impact is that he wants to leave on the sport because, he's a really influential guy in the gravel scene, in the cycling scene, and endurance space in general. So, enjoyed the conversation.
